Friday, September 12, 2014

Useless WTC Stats part V

Battle Engines. Do they exist? I have been informed that they do. Will they be at the WTC however is a different question.

There is exactly one Storm Strider at the WTC and it's in the afforementioned crazy Haley1 list from the Czech Republic.

Haley 1 -5
Squire +2
Sentinel +4
Storm Strider +9
Stormblade Captain +2
Anastasia di Bray +2
Stormblade Infantry +5
Stormblade Officer and Standard +3
Silverline Stormguard (max) +9
Storm Tower +2
Storm Tower +2
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages +6
Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer +2
Tempest Blazers (min) +6

The list is bring brought by Josef Skladanka and despite me making fun of it if you can drop it against no guns it's a very strong list.

There are 3 Gun Carriages. Irusk2, Vlad1 and Butcher3. The Irusk and Vlad lists are fairly standard aside from including a gun carriage but the Butcher list is not. I was going to spotlight the Butcher list but it's different not because it's jank but because it has all the support models and then a couple of points on fighting dudes. I like the Devastator Butcher list more.

There are 14 Vessels of Judgement. That this is the most popular battle engine (Spoiler Alert!) will come as no great surprise to anyone. 9 of the 14 are in Harbinger lists 2 in this excellent list from Maudlin:

Harbinger -5
Devout +5
Hierophant +2
Exemplar Errants (max) +8
Exemplar Errant UA +2
Horgenhold Forge Guard (max) +8
Attendant Priest +2
Visgoth Rhoven & Honor Guard +4
Exemplar Errant Seneschal +2
Rhupert Carvolo +2
The Covenant of Menoth +2
Vessel of Judgement +9
Vessel of Judgement +9

Forge Guard with Harbinger are something I have fallen in love with of late, they really help solidify some of her hordes match ups where otherwise her list can be a little pillowfisted against a beast brick and those lists often use spells to help clear infantry so having two spell immune units is fantastic. At the same time they don't weaken significantly the list against Cryx because they can still kill a ton of infantry and you can run the list in waves, first using martyrdom and tough on the errants unit and then once they have died down on the second forge guard wave. Having no jacks on Harbinger really allows her to go nuts on Martyrdom too and Rhoven plus the Vessels really completes the anti cryx package making the list able to shred infantry and pick out important solos (like the Blood Hag).

Other than Harbinger there are two in Kreoss1 lists, two in Feora2 lists and one in a Severius1 list. This battle engine though is just flat out amazing so you can really take it anywhere.

Wraith Engines - there is only one Wraith Engine. It's in a Skarre1 list from Norway Red.

Skarre 1
Skarre 1 -6
Skarlock Thrall +2
Helldiver +3
Helldiver +3
Wraith Engine +9
Bane Knights (max) +10
Bane Knights (max) +10
Blackbane's Ghost Raiders (max) +9
Satyxis Blood Witches (max) +6
Satyxis Blood Hag +2
Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls +2

I like Rob's version of this list better but this is still a strong list. You go everything incorporeal the turn before you feat and hit their army. Incorporeal delivers your army, you hit absurdly hard and accurately and then you have the feat ARM bonus next turn to keep you alive. The Bane Knights can't go incorporeal but if you can keep most of the unit safe you can make your opponent chose between triggering vengeance or killing none of them.

Arcantrik Forge Generator - none. No one is running any. It's a decent battle engine but it doesn't fit in a Vyross2 griffin spam list.

There are 4 Celestial Fulcrums. 3 are in Baldur2 lists which I have been reliably informed makes him a good Cryx match up. There is also one in a Mohsar list.

Sweden Epic: Johan Dyrling (Alternate) Circle Orboros
Mohsar 1
Mohsar -5
Woldwatcher +5
Woldwyrd +5
Megalith +11
Celestial Fulcrum +9
Druids of Orboros +7
Druids of Orboros Overseer +2
Shifting Stones +2
Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) +8
Nuala, the Huntress +2
Gallows Grove +1
Victor Pendrake +2

I am too tired to understand the beast package in this list. Or Why the Fulcrum is here (other than it's not a bad piece really). Also I never played Mohsar in circle so my insights are limited other than mirage and curse of shadows really turns on bloodtrackers and is also good on Megalith. Also pillars are annoying.

There are no Thrones of Everblight. I only really play mine with Thagrosh1 and Rhyas. With no Rhyas and 3 Thagrosh1 lists (one of which is that odd one from Scotland with the Hex Hunters) it is perhaps not too surprising that there are no thrones at the WTC.

Siege Animantarax - 0. Frankly 1 would have been a shock, especially after no thrones.

There are 2 War Wagons. One in Grissel2 and one in Grim1.

I have not played enough Grim1 to tell you much about this list other than it seems good with Grim's feat.

Grim 1 -6
Strom Troll +5
Troll Impaler +5
Dire Troll Bomber +10
Fell Caller Hero +3
War Wagon +9
Sons of Bragg +6
Swamp Gobbers +1
Trollkin Fennblades (max) +8
Fennblades UA +2
Scattergunners (min) +5
Scattergunner UA +2

The other list is a fairly standard Grissel2 build other than the War Wagon:

Grissel 2 -6
Runebearer +2
Troll Impaler +5
Pyre Troll +5
War Wagon +9
Fell Caller Hero +3
Horthol +5
Long Riders (min) +7
Trollkin Warders (max) +8
Trollkin Warders (max) +8
Krielstone (min) +3
Stone Scribe Elder +1

Still I like it. Extra knock down in that list is good.

What does this mean for battle engines in the meta? - that sounds like a really interesting question but it isn't. Good battle engines are being played in multiple lists. Battle engines with specific synergies are being used as key pieces in lists that use those synergies and the bad battle engines are not seeing play at all. It's not like a colossal which costs significantly more and therefore tends to have a greater impact on lists.

I'll add some more Gargantuan musings because I just noticed somethning. There are 2 Mammoth lists. Here they are:

Martin Ščepán (Slovakia)
Makeda 1 -5
Basilisk Krea +4
Cyclops Raider +5
Mammoth +20
Cataphract Cetrati (max) +11
Nihilators (max) +8
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) +2
Extoller Soulward +2
Feralgeist +1
Mortitheurge Willbreaker +2

Jaden Liu (China)
Makeda 1 -5
Basilisk Drake +4
Cyclops Raider +5
Mammoth +20
Cataphract Cetrati (max) +11
Nihilators (max) +8
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) +2
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer +3
Extoller Soulward +2

Two lists does not a good sample size make but these lists are almost identical. This I think is a thing. My non-skorny analysis is that the Mammoth looks like a late game piece, early on contributing with ranged attacks and then getting defenders ward after the Cetrati have been dimished. I also think the plan is here to feat, charge the Cetrati into whatever can kill the Mammoth and then do it again. I like it. I think the most interesting thing here is that you are looking at 50% of the Gargantuans at  the WTC and they are acting like colossals. Contributing with ranged attacks and getting into melee in the late game.

What about the Woldwraths?
Hungary Green: Rudolf Edlmayer
Baldur 1 -6
Megalith +11
Woldwarden +9
Woldwrath +20
Druids of Orboros +7
Druids of Orboros Overseer +2
Blackclad Wayfarer +2
Shifting Stones +2
Shifting Stones +2
Stone Keeper +1

Poland Reckless: Michal Konieczny "Gobos"
Baldur 1 -6
Woldwrath +20
Druids of Orboros +7
Druids of Orboros Overseer +2
Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) +8
Nuala, the Huntress +2
Farrow Slaughterhousers +6
Farrow Slaughterhousers +6
Gatorman Witch Doctor +3
Victor Pendrake +2

Both Baldur1. He has no ARM buff for them but then again being spell warded makes that difficult. These don't look like standard colossal lists, both lists look to do something with the animus. Both are here because of synergies specific to the Woldwrath and not just because the lists wants a big piece that's hard to kill.

What's the conclusion on Gargantuans? I don't really have one. I think the main thing that we can say is that they are harder to put into a list than colossals. You need to squeeze every point that you can out of them. You could call that being overcosted, I would. It also seems though that they are viable with specific casters which is something. Sorry for ending on a downer. Here are some dogs copying a baby


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