Menoth Lists

Wanted to commit to internet paper the lists that I have been playing and the changes so far. 

Harbinger
I started playing the Harbinger with my 2012 list.

Harbinger of Menoth (*5pts)
* Devout (5pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
* Hierophant (2pts)
Vessel of Judgement (9pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard Bearer (2pts)
Exemplar Errant Seneschal (2pts)
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts)
The Covenant of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal Mechanik (1pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

This was a really strong list in 2012 but the meta has shifted. I quickly found that the Vessel was not doing enough. I needed something that wanted to get further forwards, something that could sit in a second zone. I looked at a number of options to fill the gap but the problem is that this list is meant to be an all comers list. Putting in the Avatar for example makes the list a lot stronger against Skorne and Trolls but much weaker against Cryx. Daughters have the opposite effect on the list. Right now the list is:

Harbinger of Menoth (*5pts)
* Devout (5pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
* Hierophant (2pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard Bearer (2pts)
Horgenhold Forge Guard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Attendant Priest (2pts)
Exemplar Errant Seneschal (2pts)
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts)
The Covenant of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

I am incredibly happy with it as it stands. Some features of the list - this list can be almost completely immune to spells without even using the spell immunity from the book. You are able to attack in waves, first no knock down martyrdom toughing the errants and then shifting focus to the dwarves. Both the errants and the dwarves are able to gain magical weapons and the book can hand that out as well and both the errants and the dwarves are able to get pathfinder without using rhupert. Also the dwarves can take advantage of crusaders call for 11" of charge threat which is also pretty good.

Kreoss3
I liked the theme force for Kreoss right off the bat and I have two units of Vengers for reasons that make no sense to anyone who isn't me. I started off playing this list:

Intercessor Kreoss (*5pts)
* Revenger (6pts)
* Crusader (5pts)
* Crusader (5pts)
* Fire of Salvation (8pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Exemplar Vengers (Leader and 4 Grunts) (11pts)
Exemplar Vengers (Leader and 4 Grunts) (11pts)
Reclaimer (2pts)
Vassal Mechanik (1pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

 5 point Crusaders are insane but the list has a massive weakness in the lack of ranged attacks. Also I felt like most turns I wanted to cycle ignite from Venger unit to Venger unit or onto one of the jacks so he didn't have a lot of focus left over. The Revenger just wasn't doing anything (other than looking threatening and baiting in heavies, which I suppose is something but not 1 point more than a crusader something). That left me with two options. 1. Bugger it, live without ranged attacks, add in another crusader and call it a day. 2. Abandon Tier 4 for a tier 2 and bring in some trusty Reckoners. I went for option 2. 

Intercessor Kreoss - WJ: +5
- Reckoner - PC: 8
- Reckoner - PC: 8
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 2
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 2
Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1
Knights Exemplar Seneschal - PC: 3
Knights Exemplar Seneschal - PC: 3
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 2
Exemplar Vengers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 11
Exemplar Vengers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 11
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard - Rhoven, Gius, and Cassian: 4

Again I feel like I've hit a winner. The Seneschal I feel is one of the most undervalued models in Menoth. It just does so much stuff. I really prefer it with a threat extender like Crusaders Call or True Path but it's job in this list is to sit in scenario zones because the cav sure as hell don't want to all cram together to fit in a box 6" across (I feel like there's a your mother joke in that sentence). I had a crap ton of fun playing this list and I highly recommend it. I'm not sure how competitive it is, you should probably not drop it against Lylyth2 but I love the crap out of it.

Feora2

Feora, Priestess of the Flame (*6pts)
* Judicator (18pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
Temple Flameguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard (2pts)
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & 2 Honor Guard (4pts)
Reclaimer (2pts)
The Wrack (3 wracks) (1pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

The one list I have not changed. The only change I can see being made to this list is to drop the wracks (which I find I don't need in some games) for a mechanic. This list is my circle drop and it is great against circle. It's also designed to be a generalist list. The flameguard are amazing in this list, you can charge your opponent and set everything alight or you can shield wall, iron zeal and they can stab each other and then you can feat the fire onto whatever needs to die. The judicator is amazing and it helps with Feora's low focus and reckoners are just amazing in general. Especially against circle where flare on a warpwolf generally means that warpwolf is leaving the table. It's not quite as fun as Kreoss3 but I think it is more strongly competitive. 

Vindictus

Looking at my Menoth lists I was noticing a weakness vs Ossyan. This is an issue because I am considering taking Menoth to IG and if I was a Ret player my first pic for IG would be Ossyan (I assume a lot of players will be looking to take a colossal to 75 points). After testing Kreoss3 and Thyra and rejecting them I have settled on Vindictus. The list has been:

Vice Scrutator Vindictus (*6pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
Avatar of Menoth (11pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Holy Zealots (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Holy Zealot Monolith Bearer (2pts)
Temple Flameguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard (2pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Initiate Tristan Durant (3pts)
* Redeemer (6pts)
The Wrack (3 wracks) (1pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

Vice Scrutator Vindictus (*6pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Holy Zealots (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Holy Zealot Monolith Bearer (2pts)
Knights Exemplar (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Knights Exemplar (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Temple Flameguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard (2pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Initiate Tristan Durant (3pts)
* Redeemer (6pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

and is currently

Vice Scrutator Vindictus (*6pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Holy Zealots (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Holy Zealot Monolith Bearer (2pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Temple Flameguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard (2pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Initiate Tristan Durant (3pts)
* Redeemer (6pts)
Knight Exemplar Seneschal (3pts)
Knight Exemplar Seneschal (3pts)
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor (2pts)
Taryn di la Rovissi (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

Of all the lists that I have been playing since coming back to Menoth this one is the least settled. No idea where I am going to end up going with this one. I know the core of the list but there are a lot of floating points that I just don't know what to do with.