Terrible Jank

Firstly a continuation in the adventures of Vindictus. I think the list is settled (with the Avatar). I am finding that the list is strong against Khador as well as Ret but more experience is needed. The Avatar is amazing. I don't understand at all people who complain about how he is bad because you occasionally roll 2 focus. Only once so far have I needed it to kill an undamaged heavy without assassitance, an enraged bronzeback had charged the Avatar after pinning it had been pinned in place with revived nihilators and it had survived, it rolled two focus and killed the bronzeback from full. Any other warjack would have lost it's cortex. In my game today it killed one iron fang pikeman and won the game with gaze behind some invincible zealots allowing me to score a zone on my opponents turn. In hindsight there was a play my opponent had to get into the zone but it involved running a heavy jack right in front of the avatar and a reckoner in order to block LOS to two pikemen which could then move into my zone. Not an ideal play.

On to today's topic. This page is a repository for the awful lists I have been dojoing of late, in particular the 35 point ones for the monthly Friday Night Warmachine events I have been running.

Bad Seeds

Magnus the Warlord - WJ: +6
- Renegade - PC: 6
- Renegade - PC: 6

Kell Bailoch - PC: 0
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 2
Trencher Master Gunner - PC: 2
Saxon Orrik - PC: 2

Rangers - Leader and 5 Grunts: 5
Sword Knights - Leader and 9 Grunts: 6
- Sword Knight Officer & Standard - PC: 2
- Talon - PC: 4
Sword Knights - Leader and 9 Grunts: 6

THEME: Bad Seeds - Tier 4

I'm not sure that this list is playable at 35 points. The sword knights without UA can ambush which is sweet, there is a legitimate assassination threat from the double Renegades with rangers and a Trencher Master Gunner but it would be a lot lot stronger with a defender there for a third boosted damage roll. 

Constance Blaize

Constance Blaize, Knight of the Prophet - WJ: +6
- Gallant - PC: 9

Archduke Alain Runewood, Lord of Fharin - PC: 3
Journeyman Warcaster - PC: 3
Harlan Versh, Illuminated One - PC: 2

Precursor Knights - Leader & 9 Grunts: 8
- Precursor Knight Officer & Standard Bearer - PC: 0
Sword Knights - Leader & 9 Grunts: 6
Precursor Knights - Leader & 9 Grunts: 8
- Precursor Knight Officer & Standard Bearer - PC: 2

THEME: Army of Light - Tier 4

This list I am sure is playable at 35 and I think is really strong. It jams like a boss (see theme force bonuses) and the infantry hits really hard. 

Fiona the Black

Fiona the Black - WJ: +6
- Rocinante - PC: 9

Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios - PC: 3
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord - PC: 2
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist - PC: 2

Alexia Ciannor & the Risen - Alexia & 9 Risen Grunts: 5
- Thrall Warrior - PC: 0
Kayazy Assassins - Mercenaries - Leader & 9 Grunts: 8
- Kayazy Assassin Underboss - Mercenaries - PC: 2
Kayazy Eliminators - Mercenaries - Leader & Grunt: 3
Kayazy Eliminators - Mercenaries - Leader & Grunt: 3
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt - Lady Aiyanna & Master Holt: 4

This is another list I think is on to a winner. Fiona's feat with Kayazy is really strong and this list has a strong sustained assassination threat with a lot of angles. 

Kreoss3

Intercessor Kreoss - WJ: +5
- Reckoner - PC: 8
- Repenter - PC: 4

Vassal of Menoth - PC: 2
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 2

Exemplar Vengers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 11
Exemplar Vengers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 11
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 2

Horses are fun. With Kreoss the Vengers are really good. I don't have much else to say about this list, it is simple, low model count but effective. 

Ossrum's Eleven

General Ossrum - WJ: +5
- Ghordson Earthbreaker - PC: 19

Eiryss, Angel of Retribution - PC: 3
Taryn di la Rovissi, Llaelese Gun Mage - PC: 2
Gobber Tinker - PC: 1
Thor Steinhammer - PC: 2
Master Gunner Dougal MacNaile - PC: 2
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist - PC: 2
Harlan Versh, Illuminated One - PC: 2

Herne & Jonne - Herne and Jonne: 3
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt - Lady Aiyanna & Master Holt: 4

I think this might be the most fun list I have ever written. There are 11 character models, there are synergies all over the place and a strong assassination threat. I just love this list. 

Bradigus

Bradigus Thorle the Runecarver - WB: +6
- Woldwatcher - PC: 5
- Woldwatcher - PC: 5
- Woldwatcher - PC: 5
- Woldwatcher - PC: 5
- Woldwatcher - PC: 5
- Woldwatcher - PC: 5
- Woldwatcher - PC: 5

Blackclad Wayfarer - PC: 2

Shifting Stones - Leader & 2 Grunts: 2
Shifting Stones - Leader & 2 Grunts: 2

I am not sold on Bradigus. He might be awful at all points levels. That said he might be a good legion pairing. 35 points is even worse than 50 points, this might be unplayable. 

Kaya - Shoot to Thrill

Kaya the Wildborne - WB: +6
- Argus Moonhound - PC: 4
- Argus Moonhound - PC: 4

Viktor Pendrake - PC: 2
Gallows Grove - PC: 1

Druid Stoneward & Woldstalkers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 5
Druid Stoneward & Woldstalkers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 5
Tharn Bloodtrackers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 8
- Nuala the Huntress - Nuala 2
Tharn Blood Pack - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10

I know this list is stronger if I drop one of the three 10 point shooting options I have here for a Stalker and change one Moonhound for a Gorax but I don't wanna. I'm not sure I can kill a heavy but man will this list shoot like a boss. It's probably the Blood Pack that has to go, I might even end up dropping Pendrake and the Grove for a Witch Doc Croc for the Bloodtrackers. That list is so much more bland that this one though. I may try it like it is. 

Saeryn - Flying Circus

Saeryn, Omen of Everblight - WB: +5
- Angelius - PC: 9
- Angelius - PC: 9
- Nephilim Bloodseer - PC: 5
- Nephilim Bolt Thrower - PC: 6
- Nephilim Protector - PC: 5
- Nephilim Bolt Thrower - PC: 0

Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion - PC: 4
Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1
Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1

THEME: Fallen Angels - Tier 4

I like this list. I really wish I could put in spell martyrs but literallt the only points that are not required for the theme force are the two shepherds which are indispensable. The only way I can get in a spell martyr is to drop a bolt thrower for a different Nephilim (and maybe two bloodseers is not awful). 

Feora1

Feora, Priestess of the Flame - WJ: +6
- Hierophant
- Reckoner - PC: 8
- Reckoner - PC: 8

Avatar of Menoth - PC: 11

Vassal of Menoth - PC: 2
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 2
Wrack - PC: 1

Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 2
Daughters of the Flame - Leader & 5 Grunts: 5

So the thinking here is that Feora deals OK with infantry by herself and has a strong end game so is pretty good at 35 points with an army that can crack ARM. I don't know how well I will go at keeping Feora alive but this list is worth a shot. 

New Arkadius Theme Force

There is a new Arkadius theme force that I intend to play the hell out of. I'm still down on minions, despite investing a lot of play effort I never found another caster I liked as much as Rask or that I felt was an excellent pair for him (I know that Rask/Maelok is popular but it doesn't quite sit right with me). I don't think this will change my opinion too much since the weaknesses of the list look pretty similar but I will give it a lot of game time. The theme force is:

You can take:
Non-character Warbeasts, Bone Grinders, Slaughterhousers and Targ
Comments: That looks ultra restrictive but there are no character warbeasts. There are two units disallowed - Brigands which are garbage without CRA (and not that great with it) and Razorback weapons crews. As for solos you miss out on Alten Ashley (don't care), Gudrun (don't care), Raluk Moorclaw (don't care) and the three things that might matter in some way - Pendrake, Saxon Orik and Rorsh and Brine. So not taking those three is the extent of the theme force restrictions.

Tier1
Requires - only bring the tier stuff
Reward - you can take Goraxs and they get shield guard.
Comments: A 4 point light with primal for an animus (+2 to hit and damage and you frenzy next turn) with 4 fury that actually fights quite well in melee and now gains shield guard. Already this theme force is amazing

Tier2
Requires - Targ
Reward - Deployment extended by 2"
Comments: Targ is not the greatest caster attachment in the world but he is the only one available. He does have some useful abilities and is probably worth 2 points, espcially if you have a road hog.

Tier3
Requires - 5 Warbeasts
Reward - for every Road Hog, War Hog or Gun Boar you get a free Razor Boar.
Comments - Holy shit this is an amazing reward. Alright this is kind of restictivish but you were going to take a Gorax anyway and they count and then you probably want a couple of heavies to put Primal on so really you are only forced to take 1-2 beasts more than the absolute minimum you want in the list and every beast coming with a Razor Boar is an insanely good reward.

Tier4
Requires - 2 Goraxs
Reward - your beasts run for free turn 1
Commends: this lets you get your beasts up the board. Turn 2 you are probably using the feat to get threat range on your opponent or you don't have to run some things but turn1 you can now get everything up the board without having fury issues. As for the cost the Gorax is an amazing beast without shield guard. With a caster as squishy as Arkadius, with Forced Evo a good defensive buff that Eiryss will want to shoot off, with wanting to get forwards to land Crippling Grasp on your opponents stuff taking two shield guards that also fight wonderfully well that can be shield guarded to and hyper agressive and then charge for free with primal and forced evolution - the requirement is again almost nothing and the reward amazing.

My first draft of the list is
Arkadius
2x Road Hog
3x War Hog
5x Free Razor Boars
2x Gorax
Targ
2x Min Bonegrinders

10 points of free models. Heavies that will kill what they hit and bonegrinders to extend the range of crippling grasp and forced evolution. I'm happy with this list. I think it's good and it's in pigs. This is not something I have felt often before.

Useless WTC stats part VI

Bastions and the Seneschal
This one stood out for me and is why I decided to keep spewing spurious bullshit. There are 23 units of Bastions and only one Seneschal. This seems weird to me.

Where are the Bastions?
There are two units in a Vindictus list which I have mentioned that I don't like because of the skornergy with the feat. That might just be me though, I'm working on super secret Vindictus tech.

12 units are in High Reclaimer lists. This is no great shock. You can bring them back on full health which is good. Plus they can charge on that turn and put a blessed weaponmaster attack into something you don't like the look of. 4 lists are double Bastions, 4 lists are single Bastions. There are 8 total high Reclaimer lists so no one is taking him without Bastions.

Next there are 3 Harbinger lists with double Bastions. There is the obvious synergy with martyrdom and the Bastion ability to share damage when you can heal with the Seneschal as well and this is where we see the one lonely Seneschal at the WTC. It's in Denmark Red, for those following Big Deno's twitter that's the Denmark team that isn't mad at him. Here is the list:

Harbinger 1
Harbinger -5
Devout +5
Hierophant +2
Vessel of Judgement +9
Exemplar Bastions (max) +8
Exemplar Bastions (max) +8
Exemplar Errants (max) +8
Exemplar Errant UA +2
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt +4
Exemplar Bastion Seneschal +3
Rhupert Carvolo +2
The Covenant of Menoth +2
The Wrack +1
Vassal Mechanik +1

No jacks on Harbinger for max camping/healing, devout for spell imunity, Rhupert and the Book, Heirophant and wracks. Bastions add ARM cracking to the list. It's a strong attrition list and I like it.

Last but not least (that honour goes to Vindictus) there are two Kreoss2 theme forces with Bastions. One with double Bastions and one with a single unit. I don't really like either of them (sorry Kreoss2 players). Both lists have Errants to help with the lack of pathfinder in the list and one list has Vengers but they are a min unit. Not a fan of min Vengers (they are alright I guess but I like to be able to trigger battle driven).

Next Raeks, also a second mention of Deno as I want to quote him on Raeks - "Fucking Def16 raeks. Bullshit"

There are 24 Raeks.
Thagrosh2 9 (two singles, two doubles and a triple)
Saeryn 7 (all single)
Lylyth2 1
Vayl2 6 (3 doubles)
Thagrosh1 1

Single 11
Doubles 5
Tripple1

The double Raek in Vayl2 lists generally takes the place of a unit of infantry. They are very difficult to get through being DEF 16 and stealth and they have massive threat range, reach and the ability to jump and knockdown is incredible for assassinations. Jump is also amazing just for killing key solos. In Thagrosh2 there are a couple of benefits in addition to what they normally do. First they are amazing with Manifest Destiny, they can get to silly positions with the feat, and parry (the Raek animus) is really good on Thagrosh himself as he has flight. They ability to fly over things without taking free strikes can really open up what he can do late game. Raeks are sweet and more people should play them.

Horgle Ironstrike - There are 3 Horgles. All with a Slag Troll. One in Grim1 and two in Grim2. I really like Horgle in Grim2 and he is in every Grim2 list. Free snipe and plus 2 to hit on the Slag Troll is pretty amazing. I want to highlight another list this one from Italy Blue:

Grim 2 -4
Troll Impaler +5
Dire Troll Bomber +10
Runebearer +2
Krielstone (max) +4
Stone Scribe Elder +1
Pyg Burrowers (max) +6
Scattergunners (max) +8
Scattergunner UA +2
Horgle Ironstrike +3
Slag Troll +6
Dahlia & Skarath +9

Honestly I don't even know what Dahlia is doing here but I'm excited about it. (She might be good against Butcher3 but she has additional synergies with Grim1 which is why she's good in that list).

There are two Zaadeshs in the WTC. One is in a Makeda2 list, he has an archidon and there is a willbreaker in the list. This looks to me to be a straight up assassination thing but it could be a way to spam sprint (seems a bit expensive/risky for that). Molik Karn is in the list too.

The other is in a Morghoul1 list.
Morghoul 1 -7
Basilisk Krea +4
Molik Karn +11
Titan Gladiator +8
Cataphract Incindiarii (min) +6
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) +2
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) +2
Swamp Gobbers +1
Agonizer +2
Orin Midwinter +2
Tyrant Zaadesh +3
Cyclops Shaman +5
Tiberion +11

I like it. It's super risky to have so many points on him and there is no willbreaker but you can put abuse on Tiberion and with tag team and rush he is much faster than people will expect and hits rather ludicrously hard. Then there is an agoniser behind him and he's probably in a Krea bubble and maybe Morghoul's feat is up there is also a swamp gobber cloud (but Morghoul should probably have some of the defensive tech in the list). Also this looks like double Butcher tech. You can't pull in Tibbers and you have Orin Midwinter.

There are two Thrullgs but they are both in Barnabus lists so I'm going to skip over them.

There are 6 Blackfrost Shards. Two Thagrosh1s, two Saeryns, 1 Bethayne and one Vayl2. The two Thagrosh lists are designed to really crank the damage, in Saeryn it's not so much to crank the damage to 11 as to just deal with some of the things legion can struggle with (like agonisers behind Tiberion). Bethayne has the feat synergy and Vayl has some interesting synergies with them. I played a fair amount of the blackfrost shard with Vayl2 and the list is double Angel Scythean (though with a Seraph instead of two Ravagores like I played).

Vayl 2 -6
Angelius +9
Angelius +9
Ravagore +10
Scythean +9
Seraph +8
Blackfrost Shard +5
Blighted Nyss Legionnaires (max) +6
Spawning Vessel (max) +3
Shepherd +1
Shepherd +1

They really turn on the Seraph, if you hit with an ice cage, a kiss and use the last guy to make the unit stealth the Seraph becomes RAT 7 POW 14 with Strafe. Roll 4 shots and it might blow a heavy off the table by itself. Even two shots will hurt. Other than the Seraph the BFS does interesting things with Vayl. A lot of her damage output comes from Angels and while kiss does the less for Angels than any other beast it is model/unit which really cranks up the blast damage from her obliterates. You can also stack Ice Cage and Icy Grip, you boost Icy Grip first, then the BFS are essentially magic ability 9, if you land the ice cage then the model with kiss is essentially magic ability 11 and much more likely to hit. -4 DEF and -2 ARM is usually a death sentence for most things. Lastly if you keep them alive your Ravagore (with my list Ravagores) becomes a melee threat if your opponent closes. MAT 5 P+S 16 is kind of mopey but MAT 7 P+S 18 with two initials and 4 fury will kill an average heavy. I ended up moving away from the BFS because I struggled to keep them alive after one turn of affecting the game but Petr Cermak  of the Czech Republic is probably better than me.

Next Nephilim. Not the Bolt Throwers, the shit ones. There are two other Nephilim a Blood Seer and a Protector. The Blood Seer is in a Saeryn list with two Angels most likely acting as a cut price repulsion. The other is a Protector in Omnus' Absylonia2 list. I have not played her (I'm on a Menoth kick at the moment) but I think the Protector is a smart choice, it can prevent knockdown and shield guard her which helps her get forwards safely to trigger conferred rage.

Request for Theme Force Data.

So question 1 is anyone running Vayl2 out of theme?
Answer - No. So that's 25 theme forces right there. All tier 4.

There are 94 theme forces in total out of 520 lists. It's about 18%. Lets look at the other big theme forces though.

The other casters being played by multiple people with a 100% theme force record are:

Rasheth. with 5/5 Rasheth players playing his theme force. For those of you hoping against hope that this is the Siege Animantarax theme force, I'm sorry to burst your bubble. It's Tier 4 all chain gang all the way.

Syntherion - again 5/5 and all tier 4.

Goreshade 2. 4/4 All theme force. Two at tier 2 and Two at tier 3 (the difference is the withershadow combine and the benefit is to redeploy your warjacks).

Kreoss2. Only 2 lists but both are tier 4.

2/2 Kaelyssa players are playing the new theme force which does not allow you to run or charge turn 1 and has a bajillion arcanists. Both Tier 4.

And the only one that surprises me - Both Kaya2 players are in theme. They both picked different theme forces too but both went to Tier 4.

And then close but no cigar are:

Butcher 2 - Different from previous mentions the tier varies, everyone is at least tier 2 with 5 tier 3s and a tier 4. Out of 8 lists there is 1 player who isn't running Doom Reaver spam. He is Liang Yan from Team China.

Butcher 2
Butcher 2 -6
Juggernaut +7
Sylys Wyshnalyrr +2
Doom Reavers +6
Greylord Escort +2
Iron Fang Pikemen (max) +8
Black Dragon UA +2
Widowmakers +4
Eiryss 2 +3
Iron Fang Kovnik +2
Kovnik Andrei Malakov +3
Beast-09 +11
Man-O-War Drakhun (no mount) +4
Saxon Orrik +2

I'm not sure I like it. Don't get me wrong I love Butcher2. Beast 09 with Malakov means he gets the extra speed whether or not Butcher kills something in melee but it also means he doesn't get the hit buff (which carries over into the feat attacks) and unlike conferred rage you can't stack Redline and Rage. You do however always get enough focus to give Beast a full allocation though. I like the rest of the list.

Xerxis1 - Once again only 1 player has bucked the trend and played this caster out of theme (out of 12 total lists)

Mike O'Brien (Captain) Skorne
Xerxis 1
Xerxis 1 -5
Aptimus Marketh +3
Tiberion +11
Basilisk Krea +4
Paingiver Task Master +2
Agonizer +2
Cataphract Cetrati (max) +11
Cataphract Incindiarii (max) +9
Gatorman Posse (max) +9
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer +3
Swamp Gobbers +1

I don't think it's worth breaking theme for the changes. Unlike Butcher2 every list is tier 2. You guys are all missing out on sweet advance deploy Reiver Catapults.

Doomshaper1 - Again one brave soul (out of 6) is running him out of theme. The rest are tier 4.

Hoarluk 1 -7
Troll Axer +6
Earthborn Dire Troll +10
Mulg The Ancient +12
Runebearer +2
Krielstone (min) +3
Stone Scribe Elder +1
Sons of Bragg +6
Trollkin Warders (max) +8
Fell Caller Hero +3
Janissa Stonetide +3
Whelps +2
Sorcerer +1

Warders are nice. Sons of Bragg are nice. Is it worth it? Evidently some French guy thinks so.

There is one Stryker2 theme force (out of 2 lists), Tier 2. 100% of the one Constance Blaize lists are in theme, Tier 4.

There are 3 Deneghra2 theme forces. All the ones with the Cephalyx. (This accounts for all appearances of Cephalyx at the WTC). That's 3 out of 15 lists. All Tier 4.

1/4 Grissel1 lists are the Blood of Brag theme force with all the Kriel Warriors and only light beasts. It's Tier 4.

1/9 Issyria lists are the Dawnbringers theme force at Tier 4.

4/6 Baldur2 lists are the very exciting theme force with the cheaper Woldwatchers where nothing ever dies. All Tier 4.

2/5 Calandra lists are the theme force with the elemental lights. Both Tier 3.

1/2 Aurora lists is tier 4.

1/17 Morvahna2 lists is in theme. Tier 2

1/1 Iron Mother players is playing Carrier Group although it is assimilator spam, not double prime axiom and tier 3.

The 1 Caine1 player is playing Sons of the Tempest with two gun mage units and 5 hunters. Tier 4.

4/11 Vyros2 players are in theme. 1 in Tier2 and the rest at tier 4.

1/8 Kreoss3 players is in theme but is still forgoing the benefit of having double Vengers. Tier 4 does give cheaper melee heavies and he has taken 3 of those. (It's Germany Red if you are looking for the player).

2/4 Barnabas players are at Tier 4.

1/17 Krugar2 players is playing his theme force at Tier 4. It's not wake of destruction with the wolds and Eiryss1 either, it's Devourer's Host which has Ravagers with +2 speed turn1 and warpwolves with advance move. No stones and no druids but jamming with Krugar2 seems strong and your Ravager units all start with corpse tokens. Might catch some people off guard. This list is the brainchild of one Andrew Galea if you were curious.

1/5 Butcher1 players is playing Claws of the Dragon (black dragons). Tier 3.

1/6 Vayl1 players is playing her theme force (double hex hunters). Tier 4.

1/5 Zaal players is in theme. Tier 4.

And that is it for theme forces.

Total Numbers
Tier 1 - 0
Tier 2 - 17
Tier 3 - 10
Tier 4 - 67


It's clear that some theme forces are having a significant impact on the meta. Theme forces are interesting in that a 100% play record isn't a bad thing. If it makes a caster playable at a tournament level then it is excellent. On the one hand I'm not sure there would be more than one chinese player taking Butcher2 if it wasn't for his theme force but on the other hand having 25 tier 4 Vayl2 lists is probably a sign that that theme force is too good.I don't think you can say the same thing about Kaelyssa's theme force though or Goreshade2s.

I'm really tired and not well and I'm not sure how coherent that was so I may come back and tidy it up tomorrow.

Useless WTC Stats part V

Battle Engines. Do they exist? I have been informed that they do. Will they be at the WTC however is a different question.

There is exactly one Storm Strider at the WTC and it's in the afforementioned crazy Haley1 list from the Czech Republic.

Haley 1 -5
Squire +2
Sentinel +4
Storm Strider +9
Stormblade Captain +2
Anastasia di Bray +2
Stormblade Infantry +5
Stormblade Officer and Standard +3
Silverline Stormguard (max) +9
Storm Tower +2
Storm Tower +2
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages +6
Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer +2
Tempest Blazers (min) +6

The list is bring brought by Josef Skladanka and despite me making fun of it if you can drop it against no guns it's a very strong list.

There are 3 Gun Carriages. Irusk2, Vlad1 and Butcher3. The Irusk and Vlad lists are fairly standard aside from including a gun carriage but the Butcher list is not. I was going to spotlight the Butcher list but it's different not because it's jank but because it has all the support models and then a couple of points on fighting dudes. I like the Devastator Butcher list more.

There are 14 Vessels of Judgement. That this is the most popular battle engine (Spoiler Alert!) will come as no great surprise to anyone. 9 of the 14 are in Harbinger lists 2 in this excellent list from Maudlin:

Harbinger -5
Devout +5
Hierophant +2
Exemplar Errants (max) +8
Exemplar Errant UA +2
Horgenhold Forge Guard (max) +8
Attendant Priest +2
Visgoth Rhoven & Honor Guard +4
Exemplar Errant Seneschal +2
Rhupert Carvolo +2
The Covenant of Menoth +2
Vessel of Judgement +9
Vessel of Judgement +9

Forge Guard with Harbinger are something I have fallen in love with of late, they really help solidify some of her hordes match ups where otherwise her list can be a little pillowfisted against a beast brick and those lists often use spells to help clear infantry so having two spell immune units is fantastic. At the same time they don't weaken significantly the list against Cryx because they can still kill a ton of infantry and you can run the list in waves, first using martyrdom and tough on the errants unit and then once they have died down on the second forge guard wave. Having no jacks on Harbinger really allows her to go nuts on Martyrdom too and Rhoven plus the Vessels really completes the anti cryx package making the list able to shred infantry and pick out important solos (like the Blood Hag).

Other than Harbinger there are two in Kreoss1 lists, two in Feora2 lists and one in a Severius1 list. This battle engine though is just flat out amazing so you can really take it anywhere.

Wraith Engines - there is only one Wraith Engine. It's in a Skarre1 list from Norway Red.

Skarre 1
Skarre 1 -6
Skarlock Thrall +2
Helldiver +3
Helldiver +3
Wraith Engine +9
Bane Knights (max) +10
Bane Knights (max) +10
Blackbane's Ghost Raiders (max) +9
Satyxis Blood Witches (max) +6
Satyxis Blood Hag +2
Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls +2

I like Rob's version of this list better but this is still a strong list. You go everything incorporeal the turn before you feat and hit their army. Incorporeal delivers your army, you hit absurdly hard and accurately and then you have the feat ARM bonus next turn to keep you alive. The Bane Knights can't go incorporeal but if you can keep most of the unit safe you can make your opponent chose between triggering vengeance or killing none of them.

Arcantrik Forge Generator - none. No one is running any. It's a decent battle engine but it doesn't fit in a Vyross2 griffin spam list.

There are 4 Celestial Fulcrums. 3 are in Baldur2 lists which I have been reliably informed makes him a good Cryx match up. There is also one in a Mohsar list.

Sweden Epic: Johan Dyrling (Alternate) Circle Orboros
Mohsar 1
Mohsar -5
Woldwatcher +5
Woldwyrd +5
Megalith +11
Celestial Fulcrum +9
Druids of Orboros +7
Druids of Orboros Overseer +2
Shifting Stones +2
Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) +8
Nuala, the Huntress +2
Gallows Grove +1
Victor Pendrake +2

I am too tired to understand the beast package in this list. Or Why the Fulcrum is here (other than it's not a bad piece really). Also I never played Mohsar in circle so my insights are limited other than mirage and curse of shadows really turns on bloodtrackers and is also good on Megalith. Also pillars are annoying.

There are no Thrones of Everblight. I only really play mine with Thagrosh1 and Rhyas. With no Rhyas and 3 Thagrosh1 lists (one of which is that odd one from Scotland with the Hex Hunters) it is perhaps not too surprising that there are no thrones at the WTC.

Siege Animantarax - 0. Frankly 1 would have been a shock, especially after no thrones.

There are 2 War Wagons. One in Grissel2 and one in Grim1.

I have not played enough Grim1 to tell you much about this list other than it seems good with Grim's feat.

Grim 1 -6
Strom Troll +5
Troll Impaler +5
Dire Troll Bomber +10
Fell Caller Hero +3
War Wagon +9
Sons of Bragg +6
Swamp Gobbers +1
Trollkin Fennblades (max) +8
Fennblades UA +2
Scattergunners (min) +5
Scattergunner UA +2

The other list is a fairly standard Grissel2 build other than the War Wagon:

Grissel 2 -6
Runebearer +2
Troll Impaler +5
Pyre Troll +5
War Wagon +9
Fell Caller Hero +3
Horthol +5
Long Riders (min) +7
Trollkin Warders (max) +8
Trollkin Warders (max) +8
Krielstone (min) +3
Stone Scribe Elder +1

Still I like it. Extra knock down in that list is good.

What does this mean for battle engines in the meta? - that sounds like a really interesting question but it isn't. Good battle engines are being played in multiple lists. Battle engines with specific synergies are being used as key pieces in lists that use those synergies and the bad battle engines are not seeing play at all. It's not like a colossal which costs significantly more and therefore tends to have a greater impact on lists.

I'll add some more Gargantuan musings because I just noticed somethning. There are 2 Mammoth lists. Here they are:

Martin Ščepán (Slovakia)
Makeda 1 -5
Basilisk Krea +4
Cyclops Raider +5
Mammoth +20
Cataphract Cetrati (max) +11
Nihilators (max) +8
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) +2
Extoller Soulward +2
Feralgeist +1
Mortitheurge Willbreaker +2

Jaden Liu (China)
Makeda 1 -5
Basilisk Drake +4
Cyclops Raider +5
Mammoth +20
Cataphract Cetrati (max) +11
Nihilators (max) +8
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) +2
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer +3
Extoller Soulward +2

Two lists does not a good sample size make but these lists are almost identical. This I think is a thing. My non-skorny analysis is that the Mammoth looks like a late game piece, early on contributing with ranged attacks and then getting defenders ward after the Cetrati have been dimished. I also think the plan is here to feat, charge the Cetrati into whatever can kill the Mammoth and then do it again. I like it. I think the most interesting thing here is that you are looking at 50% of the Gargantuans at  the WTC and they are acting like colossals. Contributing with ranged attacks and getting into melee in the late game.

What about the Woldwraths?
Hungary Green: Rudolf Edlmayer
Baldur 1 -6
Megalith +11
Woldwarden +9
Woldwrath +20
Druids of Orboros +7
Druids of Orboros Overseer +2
Blackclad Wayfarer +2
Shifting Stones +2
Shifting Stones +2
Stone Keeper +1

Poland Reckless: Michal Konieczny "Gobos"
Baldur 1 -6
Woldwrath +20
Druids of Orboros +7
Druids of Orboros Overseer +2
Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) +8
Nuala, the Huntress +2
Farrow Slaughterhousers +6
Farrow Slaughterhousers +6
Gatorman Witch Doctor +3
Victor Pendrake +2

Both Baldur1. He has no ARM buff for them but then again being spell warded makes that difficult. These don't look like standard colossal lists, both lists look to do something with the animus. Both are here because of synergies specific to the Woldwrath and not just because the lists wants a big piece that's hard to kill.

What's the conclusion on Gargantuans? I don't really have one. I think the main thing that we can say is that they are harder to put into a list than colossals. You need to squeeze every point that you can out of them. You could call that being overcosted, I would. It also seems though that they are viable with specific casters which is something. Sorry for ending on a downer. Here are some dogs copying a baby

Useless WTC Stats Part IV

More things you never wanted to know about the WTC lists!

Bog Trog Shamblers. There are 7 units in the WTC two are in Rickards (Arleharan's) Rask list and that is a bonkers combination. You can spend Bog Trogs off the other unit and they are pretty good with Rage and against a caster either without focus or paralyzed. There are 6 other lists with Bog Trog Shamblers and I'm going to run through them quickly,

The first one is in Traishy's Madrak2 list. I've kind of steered away from talking about the Australian lists because I don't want to give away our secret Australia tech so I won't say too much except that this is my favourite troll list at the WTC. Next is Gerry Nolan's Kallus list which I have mentioned. Ignite can go on the unit at they get corpse tokens both from the stuff that dies and the incubii created by the feat.

Number 3 is a very strange Thagrosh1 list from Scotland.
Thagrosh 1
Thagrosh 1 -5
Carnivean +11
Scythean +9
Scythean +9
Raek +4
Naga Nightlurker +5
Shepherd +1
Shepherd +1
Blighted Nyss Hex Hunters (max) +8
Gatorman Bokor & Bog Trog Shamblers +6
Feralgeist +1

I have played a ton of Thagrosh1 when I was playing Legion consistently he was a caster I put a lot of effort into figuring out, I've played a ton of different builds but nothing really like this one. In the core there is a Carni, two Scytheans and a Naga. It's really strong against Haley2 with a Stormwall and that's something I've played a fair bit of but the Hex Hunters and the Shamblers are different. Even though the hex hunters have hunter they don't actually ignore the defensive bonus from fog of war because that only works on ranged attacks not magical attacks and though Thagrosh has a damage buff spell it's faction only so you can't put it on the Bog Trogs. You can't put wraithbane on the Bokur either because it's faction only or Spiny Growth him. I have to assume that he's teching for a specific match up or trying to sure up a weakness against something but I can't pick it.

List 4 is from Sweden and it's a massive list in this format.

Morvahna 1
Morvahna 1 -6
Gorax +4
Warpwolf Stalker +10
Warpwolf Stalker +10
Druid Wilder +2
Shifting Stones +2
Shifting Stones +2
Stone Keeper +1
Gatorman Witch Doctor +3
Swamp Gobbers +1
Gatorman Bokor & Bog Trog Shamblers +6
Blackclad Wayfarer +2
Blackclad Wayfarer +2
Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) +8
Nuala, the Huntress +2
Gallows Grove +1\

There are plusses and minuses to having the shamblers here, you can't leave the blood trackers undead because then you get no corpse tokens so you don't get to abuse tough and Regrowth but turning them undead auto rallies them - http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?158795-Zombify-question&p=2011332&viewfull=1#post2011332 (Infernal Ruling as the wording on undead is ambiguous when it comes to rallying). Other than that it has double Stalkers and a Gorax and double Blackclads which in this case can be used to extend the threat range of your shambler unit. In addition to charging stalkers and there are the obligatory double shifting stones. In a format where you can hide this list from purification it is massive. The only downside is that there isn't a great Restoration target but that's just fine on a Stalker if nothing else.

List 5 is from the other Sweden team and it's Rickard Nilsson's rask list. Double Shamblers double spitters. 2 units of Posse and one of ambushers for corpse tokens.

The last Shambler list is a Zaal list.
Zaal -5
Basilisk Krea +4
Cyclop Brute +5
Aptimus Marketh +3
Gatorman Bokor & Bog Trog Shamblers +6
Nihilators (max) +8
Nihilators (max) +8
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer +3
Venator Reivers (min) +5
Venator Reivers UA +2
Ancestral Guardian +3
Ancestral Guardian +3
Ancestral Guardian +3
Paingiver Task Master +2

In addition to being the only Zaal list with Shamblers (there are 4 other Zaal lists, one is a theme force, another has double Slaughterhousers and no Shamblers) it is the only Skorne list at the whole WTC with Venator Reivers. For those who don't understand the synergy models with last stand are destroyed, not removed from play. They still generate tokens for the feat and still generate corpse tokens for the Bokur. In addition models are not destroyed until the end of the turn so you can attack with last standed shamblers (it only requires friendly models) and then remove them to buy attacks or boost with the Bokur who also benefits from last stand.

Now some quick minions analysis.
Swamp Gobbers 51
Feralgeist 17
Gobber Tinker 16
Gatorman Posse 36
Dahlia and Skarath 2
Wrong Eye and Snapjaw 10
Rorsh and Brine 1
Brin and Lug 0 - no love for the bear, not even in Borka2, possibly because there are no Borkas of any incarnation at the tournament.

I want to look at the Rorsh and Brine list.

You'll be shocked to learn that it is a Deneghra1 list:
Deneghra 1 -5
Skarlock Thrall +2
Deathripper +4
Deathripper +4
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) +10
Sea Dog Crew (max) +8
Mr. Walls +2
Lord Rockbottom +2
Master Gunner Dougal MacNaile +2
Orin Midwinter +2
Rorsh & Brine +9
Warwitch Siren +2
Warwitch Siren +2
Pistol Wraith +3
Pistol Wraith +3

I like it. There is a minimum of fuss on the Pirate unit. You can't tough and money shot on the same turn so there is none of the stuff that helps them with tough. Dougal improves all your shooting and has a quad iron (something people often forget). Rorsh and Brine have a great native threat range and Deneghra helps them hit and hit hard.

Of the 10 appearences of Wrong Eye and Snapjaw only twice do they appear with a bull snapper. Once in a Maelok list and once in a Gorten list. It's the other "pure Searforge" player Sankha Amarakoon. No Thor in this list but the Earthbreaker can live without Thor in a Gorten list. Spiny Growth is strong both on the Earthbreaker and on Gorten himself. Helping him get forwards for a good feat without dying.

There are 38 lists with a Spawning Vessel. 30 of those lists do not have a shredder, of those 30 lists 24 have a unit to feed the pot, 6 do not, possibly the players are going to kill their own crew and make two lessers earning them a point or possibly they are going to try and capture enemy corpses. 3 are in Saeryn lists but the other 3 are in Vayl2 theme forces where they are required. There are 25 Vayl2 theme forces in the WTC out of 25 Vayl2 lists. A surprising number of lists without Shredders had hex hunters though (13 to be exact). It's not a combination I like, not a huge fan of killing hex hunters to make shredders because you are losing points. Although they may just find that their Angels are fine without tenacity. Also I understand that the points are tight after you have included your requisite 5 heavies.

Two players are playing Kaelyssa and they are both playing her awesome new theme force, the theme force formerly known as Hail Hydra. They are running 13 arcanists between them (7 in one list 6 in the other). One of them Andre Suwanda of Switzerland is also running the only Hydra in the WTC. He is also running 3 Manticores. Despite playing in Sydney with Dylan and Jeff and having the two people I play most against both playing Ret (at least in the past) I had to look up what a Manticore was. It has covering fire and a Range 12 POW 12 with an AOE 3. It also can spend a focus to gain +3 strength and the arcanist bonus on top takes it to P+S 20. Unless you take out the Generator. Both lists contain a Manticore and they make up the totality of Manticores at the WTC. (In fairness the theme force precludes the Vyre jacks so no Banshee for the Kae players).

There are 4 Defenders at the WTC and all 4 are marshalled to gun mages. All 4 lists also include Arlen Strangeways. 3 are Haley2 lists and one is a Siege list. The Siege list also includes a journeyman running a Charger. One of two chargers at the WTC (the other as perviously mentioned is being run by Allison Jakes). The Siege list is Marin Polák's of Slovakia. Of the 50 journeyman warcasters (i.e. the ones actually called that not the character ones) there is only one more running a jack. It's in Craig Conroy's list and he's running a Sentinal (it's the Haley1 double colossal list).

Lastly Shifting Stones are pretty ubiquitous but I'm more interested in where there are no shifting stones. There are 16 lists with only a single unit of shifting stones and only 7 units without any shifting stones.

1. James Moorhouse's Morvahna2 list
2. Dirk Pintjens of Belgium Heron's Morvahna2 list
3. Brett Wilkie's (England Prime) Morvahna2 list
4. Teemu Aro (Finland Blue) Morvahna2 list
5. Janne Mikkola (Finland White) Morvahna 2 list
6. Guns (I assume it's Guns, unless there is a different Andrew Galea playing Warmachine) is running a Kruegar2 theme force with no units of shifting stones.
7. Lastly a Baldur1 list from Michal Konieczny of Poland Reckless (the defending champions).

I'll put down that Baldur1 list because I think it's interesting

Baldur 1 -6
Woldwrath +20
Druids of Orboros +7
Druids of Orboros Overseer +2
Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) +8
Nuala, the Huntress +2
Farrow Slaughterhousers +6
Farrow Slaughterhousers +6
Gatorman Witch Doctor +3
Victor Pendrake +2

Druids with the Woldwrath and Victor pendrake are interesting at least. The main thing this list is doing though is abusing no knock down and tough. Slaughterhousers are tough and the Witch doctor can make the bloodtrackers or druids tough as well. Stone Skin also works on the druids ranged attacks as it is a bonus to strength and not just to damage.

Useless WTC stats part III

We covered Storm Lances previously and Blazers with them, now lets see if the Europeans just really like horses.

Bane Riders 21
Soulhunters 12
Exemplar Vengers 12 - no double Vengers. Someone is running the theme force but only using one unit.
Flame Bringers 0 (and in a meta that seems to love cavalry too this looks bad).
Destors 0 (there are at least a lot less Ret players and there are 3 Destor Thanes)
Iron Fang Uhlans 6
Greylord Outriders

Raptors 7
Tharn Wolf Riders 1
Long Riders 4
Ferox 1 (in a Mordikaar list paired with Fist of Halaak)

This is to be compared with
Tempest Blazers 24
Storm Lances 16

Shockingly ranged light cav seem to be the most popular choices whereas heavy cav are at least at the moment is a good place in the meta.

To put the numbers in context for Cryx there are 41 units of Bane Thralls and 63 units of Bane Knights. The higher number though is at least partially accounted for by the higher FA, even the Bane Thralls are often taken in multiples. OK fair enough it's just 3 lists and two of them are Goreshade theme forces but there are 13 min units of Bane Thralls and 6 minimum units without UA which are there mostly to bring dark shroud to lists that need the extra hitting power. There may be less units of Bane Riders but the numbers are in the ball park. Bane Riders are also spread among casters. 8 in Skarre1, 4 in Goreshade3, 2 in Deneghra2, Witch Coven, and Deneghra1, and 1 in Asphyxious3, Skarre2 and Goreshade2. This is a good sign that the unit is playable in general and not reliant on specific synergies (such as Skarre1's feat which is obviously quite a strong synergy).

Vengers appear most often in Kreoss3 lists, 6 to be exact (this does mean that there are two Kreoss3 lists without Vengers, one from the defending champions). Also 3 times in High Reclaimer lists (the feat is quite good for them because you can place them, they activate fully and they still get battle driven. They also appear once in Vindictus, Harbinger (Brian White) and Kreoss2. In Kreoss2 lists it gets some ghetto pathfinder into the list as they get pathfinder for a round when damaged (you can trigger it on free strikes as well, something to remember when your opponent with half his venger unit behind a wall asks if you want to take the free strike). In comparison there are 19 Zealot units, 10 Temple Flameguard units (less than Vengers) and 32 Exemplar Errant units.

In Khador land there are only 14 units of Kayazy Assassins (all 14 have an Underboss) and 31 units of Iron Fangs 25 of which are Black Dragons. It's less positive for the Uhlans. They do appear 3 times in Vlad2 so the feat synergy obviously goes some way to helping them.

I think that adds up to cavalry being a significant part of the meta. At least for Warmachine armies, hordes cavalry is still on the outs.

Press Gangers - 8 of the 12 units of press gang in the entire WTC are being brought by Australians. I think that's definitely an achievement of some sort. Every Australian list with Press Gangers went with doubles however of the 3 overseas lists with press gang only one (a Deneghra1 list from Poland Cautious i.e. not the defending champions) had double press gang. The other two lists were Durgan lists.

Idrian Skirmishers - there are 9 units of Idrians at the WTC 6 are in High Reclaimer lists, 2 in Severius2 lists for some reason and one in a Harbinger list. In High Reclaimer lists they provide an excellent assassination threat. In Severius2 there is one list where they look like likely holy ward targets, the other list has temple flamguard though which also benefit greatly from that spell. Assault and Battery is a really good ability and I do like the damage output of Idrians but ... The Harbinger list is one I don't like. It seems like a worse version of more mainstream harbinger lists. Idrians instead of Errants, The book but no Rhupert, jacks without Vassals. I am not a fan.

Speaking of Harbinger there are 20 Harbinger lists. 16 have a Devout, 4 do not. 14 lists have Exemplar Errants 6 do not. 12 lists have Rhupert Carvolo (8 don't). 4 Harbinger lists have Vilmon and at least one other Paladin. The big winner though is the book, 19 Harbinger lists have the covenant of Menoth. The one that does not also does not have Rhupert Carvolo. It's this list from the Ukraine

Harbinger -5
Devout +5
Reckoner +8
Reckoner +8
Hierophant +2
Choir of Menoth (min) +2
Exemplar Errants (max) +8
Exemplar Errant UA +2
Vassal of Menoth +2
Vassal of Menoth +2
Vessel of Judgement +9
Visgoth Rhoven & Honor Guard +4
Exemplar Errant Seneschal +2
The Wrack +1

I used to run a very similar Harbinger list but with the wrack being a mechanik to repair the vessel of Judgement and Rhoven being Rhupert and the Book.

Dominic E Darius - There are 3 Darius lists. Two lists are double Stormwall lists but neither is the NQ theme force Field Tests; there are two models that are not in that theme force common to both lists - Sylys (who I believe could be replaced by a squire without a great deal of hardship) and the journeyman warcaster. The list needs a journeyman which is a near fatal omission for the theme force. The other Darius list (other than the double Stormwall lists) is interesting and I like it (it's Irish, I'm finding I like a lot of their lists):

Darius -5
Squire +2
Centurion +9
Centurion +9
Steelhead Halberdiers (max) +6
Steelhead Halberdiers (max) +6
Horgenhold Forge Guard (max) +8
Alexia 1 +5
Eiryss 2 +3
Ragman +2
Rhupert Carvolo +2
Journeyman Warcaster +3

How important is the journeyman warcaster to Cygnar? There are 50 of them in 64 Cygnar lists. Josh Bates is responsible for 2 of the lists without a journeyman. There is only one other player at the WTC going sans journeyman and it is Jeppa Resmark of Sweden Prime (I'm glad I'm writing this and not trying to say it). He also contributes to this stat - of the 14 lists without a journeyman 7 are Haley1 lists. That's quite a surprise to me as I tend to view Temporal Barrier as an ARM buff in addition to board control and a hit buff. I generally try to stack ARM in her lists. She has 13 lists total so only 6 of them have a journeyman.

Only one Haley1 list does not have a Stormwall and it is Josef Skladanka of the Czech Republic. It does however have a Storm Strider and two Storm Tower light artillery pieces as well as Silverline and Stormblades, it has no journeyman.

Of the Haley1 lists that do have a journeyman 3 are taking Gastone with a Galleon, as well as both USA lists the other player taking this horrid abomination is Carlo Piccinini of Italy Blue. The other 3 players with Haley1 and a journeyman are taking Storm Lances as the obvious target of a second arcane shield (should one be cast). No one took Haley1 without a squire.

There are 4 Severius1 lists, 3 have the Blessing of Vengeance. The fourth list is running him with a Revenger. I do wonder if it might have been worth finding the extra point to upgrade to his character jack. Of the four lists two have Tristan Durant in them, one with a Redeemer and one running a Judicator which I want to highlight for a second.

Severius 1
Severius 1 -6
Blessing of Vengence +7
Reckoner +8
Hierophant +2
Choir of Menoth (min) +2
Holy Zealots (max) +6
Holy Zealot Monolith Bearer +2
Tristan Durant +3
Judicator +18
The Wrack +1
Vassal Mechanik +1
Vassal of Menoth +2
Visgoth Rhoven & Honor Guard +4

It's Marco Elitropi's list from Italy Blue and I like it. With the help of the Reckoner and Eye of Menoth the Judicator actually becomes pretty accurate or it can just lob AOEs all over infantry with POW 10 blast damage. Add in the POW 13 Ashes to Ashes and I like the threat it poses even to higher ARM infantry.

Anastasia di Bray - Of the 16 Stacies in the field 11 are in Haley2 lists. This is no great surprise. Telekinesis plus the feat makes it much easier to get off espionage. There are also 3 in High Reclaimer lists. She plays a little differently in High Reclaimer, whereas with Haley you are likely to get an espionage off just because of the difficulty of preventing one with HR you are able to put her in an aggressive position and protect her with clouds but you aren't able to add to her threat range or stop your opponent from walking up to punch her as you can with Haley2's feat. It does however let you dictate where your opponent can put their caster. The other two are in Haley1 and in Harbinger. It's the aforementioned Haley1 list with the light artillery from the Czech Republic. The Harbinger list is this one:

Harbinger 1
Harbinger -5
Devout +5
Hierophant +2
Exemplar Errants (max) +8
Exemplar Errant UA +2
Holy Zealots (max) +6
Holy Zealot Monolith Bearer +2
Knights Exemplar +5
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt +4
Attendant Priest +2
Visgoth Rhoven & Honor Guard +4
Anastasia di Bray +2
Exemplar Errant Seneschal +2
Exemplar Seneschal +3
Exemplar Seneschal +3
Rhupert Carvolo +2
The Covenant of Menoth +2
The Wrack +1

To me this list looks like it wants to play against infantry. With the feat up you can probably get her into a good position. Also there are some scenarios especially against infantry hordes where going second against the Harbinger is a huge disadvantage so the plus one to go first becomes quite important.

Next up Farrow Slaughterhousers. There are 8 units, always taken in pairs. I have some experience with these guys both in pigs and in Circle where they are amongst the chief ARM cracking infantry. They appear twice in Cassius lists where they have been picked ahead of Tharn Ravagers (there are 9 units of Tharn Ravager but none in Cassius lists) and once in a Baldur1 list and a Zaal list which does not contain Shamblers. This Zaal list to be exact:

Zaal 1
Zaal -5
Basilisk Drake +4
Cyclops Raider +5
Cyclops Raider +5
Farrow Slaughterhousers +6
Farrow Slaughterhousers +6
Nihilators (max) +8
Ancestral Guardian +3
Ancestral Guardian +3
Ancestral Guardian +3
Hakaar the Destroyer +4
Mortitheurge Willbreaker +2
Orin Midwinter +2
Paingiver Task Master +2
Saxon Orrik +2

From Máté Túri of Hungary Red, it's one of the few Skorne lists not paired with Fist.

Going back to Cassius for a second there are 3 Cassius lists, that means that there is only one without double slaughterhousers and it's this one:
Cassius -6
Gorax +4
Warpwolf Stalker +10
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) +10
Druids of Orboros +7
Druids of Orboros Overseer +2
Bone Grinders (max) +3
Shifting Stones +2
Stone Keeper +1
Shifting Stones +2
Stoneward & Woldstalkers +5
Stoneward & Woldstalkers +5
Gallows Grove +1
Gallows Grove +1
Gatorman Witch Doctor +3

From the Captain of Finland White. It looks to me like a Cassius list decked out to play against Cryx.

Now to the things everyone want to know about. Light Artillery. There are only two Storm Towers and they are both in that Haley1 list. There are also 4 Mortars. 3 are in Irusk2 lists and one in Vlad2 (Golitsyn Oleksandr). There are no double Mortar lists.

Quick aside - there is only one unit of venator reivers in the whole WTC. I know that we can't look at Skorne without taking into account the way Skorne lists are being used to set match ups (with fist of Halaak) but this still came as a surprise to me.

There is a Thumper Crew in a Grim 2 list from France1 and that's it for light artillery. There are no real shocks here. Storm Towers with Nemo3 are a fair choice but there is only one Nemo in the WTC and it's Nemo1 on the UN team. You can also play a Thumper Crew with Madrak1 for some jank with the feat (running and then shooting) but in general light artillery remains largely irrelevant.

The last thing I want to write about is Kromac. There are 12 Kromac lists, 8 of them have Ghettorix in them. Every Kromac list has a Stalker and 7 of them have double stalkers, every list also includes a single Gorax. I'll put the beasts in order:

Stalker 19
Gorax 12
Ghettorix 8
Pureblood 3
Riphorn 2
Feral 2
Megalith 1
Woldwarden 1

So I know what you are all thinking. Who took the Woldwarden? It was the Captain of Norway Red.

Units with Kromac - 8 have double Woldstalkers, 3 have no Woldstalkers and one has a single unit. All 12 lists have 2 units of Shifting Stones. 2 lists have Una in them with a Rotterhorn, One list has Blood Trackers and one list has double Mannikins.

I know I said Kromac was last but now I'm interested in Una. Shes in 4 lists. She is always running at least one rotterhorn and never any other Griffon. In addition to the two Kromac lists she appears in she's also in two Krugar2 lists (one of which has her running two Rotterhorn Griffons). No lists also contain bone grinders and Rorsh and Brine. As for her targets for Accelerate two lists contain a single unit of Woldstalkers and the other two lists contain double Blackclads.

I think that's it for today. I do actually have to do something constructive. Peace out.

Useless WTC stats part II

I want to start off looking more closely at Bonds.

Lets start off with Kovnik Joe

He appears 11 times with Winter Guard Infantry and 8 times with Riflemen. Neither Riflemen nor Infantry appears without Kovnik Joe and though the Riflemen are predominantly not iron flesh casters they do appear in a butcher1 list and the Infantry are predominantly in iron flesh lists but also appear in Vlad 1 and 2 and in a Sorscha1 list. The spread and ubiquity of both units is simply evidence that they are really good. They can go in almost any list and carry their weight and this goes for both the infantry and the riflemen.

Lets look at Bonds now and start with the caster everyone is most interested in - Hexeris2. He appears 4 times and in every list there is a Cyclops Brute bonded to Hexeris2. It seems to be the clear winner here.

Severius2 is bonded to a Reckoner and a Redeemer. Irusk2 appears once without a bond (Behemoth is his only jack) and once each with a Juggernaught and a Spriggan. Feora2 appears 9 times, 7 times with a bonded Judicator and twice with a bonded Redeemer. The redeemer lists do not have Judicators in them, I think it's clear that the Judicator is the better choice with the Redeemer acting as a cut price judicator when you need the points for something else. One of the redeemer lists spams heavy jacks so I understand the idea the other one though is this list:
Feora 2 -6
-Redeemer +6
-Templar +8
-Hierophant +2
The Avatar of Menoth +11
Choir of Menoth (min) +2
Choir of Menoth (min) +2
Initiate Tristan Durant +3
-Redeemer +6
The Wrack +1
Vassal Mechanik +1
Vassal Mechanik +1
Vassal of Menoth +2
Vassal of Menoth +2
Vessel of Judgement +9

From Teppo Aro. I have no idea what the hell is going on in this list. I assume it's tuned to a specific match up but I don't see what match up.

Lastly we have Haley2. She is bonded twice to Thorn (which is my personal favourite bond), twice to a Centurion and leading the pack jointly with 7 bonds a Stormclad and a Stormwall. I have a little experience running Haley2 with both Stormclad and Stormwall and I can say convincingly that the Stormclad is more fun (and Thorn more fun again) but I can't claim that to be an objective truth. Only one of the bonded Stormwalls is in a double Stormwall list. In my limited experience the Stormwall is better agaisnt Cryx and Khador (in general at least) and the Stormclad against Skorne, Legion and Circle so it may be a match up thing but more likely just comes down to personal preference with the second list made to cover the gaps left by the Haley list.

Next we have a list from Austria White:

Void Seer Mordikaar
Mordikaar -5
Cyclop Brute +5
Archidon +7
Archidon +7
Molik Karn +11
Aptimus Marketh +3
Bloodrunners +5
Nihilators (max) +8
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) +3
Venator Slingers (min) +4
Mortitheurge Willbreaker +2

I look at this list and though admittedly I have no Skorne experience it doesn't seem like it can kill anything other than a caster. Don't get me wrong I see the feat synergy and that will allow you to get excellent field position but it seems like Molik Karn and the Nihilators are good at killing things and the rest of the list is paying points for abilities that don't kill models. I don't feel the list will stand up in an attrition battle. When MOM looked at that Karchev list from Poland last year they said it looked like it was set up just to lob crazy assassinations at whoever it came up against and this list looks the same at leas to me. The reason why I find this interesting is because it's pairing is Fist of Halaak. I think they are running the same strategy as the Polish team did last year which is put a player with a really scary list that a lot of the field can't deal with up first. I think he's going to drop Fist in nearly every match up unless he comes up against a silver bullet list in which case he's going to drop this list and hope that getting stuck in that match up put his team in a good position with the other match ups.

All 5 Mordikaar lists are paired with Fist of Halaak. All except Martin Hornecek's list have a unit of blood runners and an Archidon. I think the message here is that if you are going to be playing against Fist of Halaak your list better also play against Mordikaar and be ready for crazy assassination attempts. One of the alternatess even has Ferox in his list.

Onwards to the Gatorman Witch Doctor. There are 28 Witch Doc Crocs in the WTC. 3 are in one Maelok list and the rest appear only as single solos in lists. He is most popular in circle appearing in 16 Circle lists. 13 of those circle lists also include Bloodtrackers. There are 26 total lists including bloodtrackers. He appears most often in Morvahna2 lists, in 9 out of 17 lists. The Witch Doc Croc appears in both Morvahna1 lists both of which also include Bloodtrackers. He appears in 3 minion lists (though that makes 5 Witch Doctors) in 5 Troll lists and in one Legion list. It's Kallus and it is the only Kallus list at the WTC.

Kallus -5
Shredder +2
Shredder +2
Stinger +2
Strider Deathstalker +2
Strider Deathstalker +2
Gatorman Witch Doctor +3
Bog Trog Ambushers (min) +5
Gatorman Bokor & Bog Trog Shamblers +6
Blighted Nyss Legionnaires (max) +6
Farilor +3
Blighted Nyss Swordsmen (max) +8
Blighted Nyss Swordsmen UA +3
Spawning Vessel (max) +3
Blighted Nyss Hex Hunters (max) +8

It's Gerry Nolan (Ireland, also I feel like we should all clink our glasses and drink since he was mentioned). I actually really like this list. There is a little bit of ARM cracking in the Swordsmen with Ignite but it's mostly an anti infantry list. I especially like the Ambushers, I have always enjoyed playing them and got a fair amount out of them (especially min ambushers since they often don't have that many targets). They also work for the feat if you catch them in your control area.

Last thing for part 2 is Storm Lances. There are 16 Storm Lance units in the WTC but only 14 lists because 2 players are playing Charge of the Storm Brigade which increases their FA. There is another Stryker2 list that includes Storm Lances without being a theme force. Other than that they appear in 6 Haley2 lists (out of 24) and appear in 4 out of 13 Haley1 lists. There are only 3 Stryker2 lists so they appear in 100% of his lists. They also appear in one Siege list and the one Stryker list running only single stormlances has been mentioned previously:

(If fresh can be a thing then so can this).

With 32 players playing Cygnar and 64 lists that means that they are in 14/64 lists and 12/32 pairings. 2 players have Storm Lances in both lists. That means that 37.5% of Cygnar pairings include at least one unit of Storm Lances and that approximately 22% of Cygnar lists include Stormlances. It seems that the European meta is still in love with the blue horsies. There are also 24 units of Blazers so if you are playing against Cygnar you can expect to see some horsies. All Storm Lance units are max units but there are 4 min units of Blazers. 

Cygnar Horse Stats
If you look at both Storm Lances and Blazers you find that there are horsies in 24 pairings and 33 lists. There are only 7 Cygnar list pairings that do not include horsies and if you are smart and notices that 24+7 is 31 not 32 then you'll realise that means that there is a list that also has Steelhead Cavalry (from Slovakia, shockingly it's a Haley2 list). There are two other units of Steelhead heavy cav, a Damiano list and a Deneghra1 list. Of the 7 pairings that do not include cav only 3 are from Europe. Both Canadian Cygnar players and both USA Cygnar players have opted out of playing cavalry. So the weird European countries are Hungary, Italy and Russia (though it could be argued whether Russia count seeing as a lot of the country is in Asia).

Necrosurgeon and Stitch Thralls - There are 53 units of Necrosurgeon Stitch thralls at the WTC. That a crapton of stitch thralls. There are 19 lists with a single necrosurgeon and 17 lists with two necrosurgeons. What else is in the lists?

In 10 lists (all Skarre1) there is one necrosurgeon and no mechanithralls. In other words the unit is just there to heal Skarre. In 16 lists (a mix of one or two necrosurgeons) there is one unit of mechanithrals. In 9 units (all double necrosurgeon) there are two units of mechanithralls and there is one list with three units of Mechanithralls and two necorsurgeons. It's a Skarre1 list and it also has 30 bane knights. I admire it for its simplicity. There are 36 units of Mechthralls but only 7 are Max units.

Of the 26 lists where there are also mechanithralls I had a look to see if there were any other living units added in order to at least theoretically add to the mechanithrall units. Only 3 lists had no other potential corpse tokens other than the mechanithralls.

10 just satyxis
2 Cephalyx (you'll be shocked to learn it's the Deneghra theme force)
3 Bloodgorgers and Satyxis
6 Mercs (but only one list was Denny1 with pirates)
2 lists had Mercs and Satyxis

Of the Mercs Boomhowlers and Nyss Hunters where the two units represented. All in all that makes 26/92 Cryx lists which contain recursion. I don't know if that makes it a big thing or not. Something you should be looking out for.

Enigma Foundries - There are only 7 Convergence players at the WTC and yet they have managed to smuggle in 14 Enigma Foundries. Every single list that contains an Enigma Foundry contains a second Enigma Foundry. So half the convergence lists you will see will contain double Enigma Foundries and half will contain none. Only one player is playing double double Enigma Foundries Ciaran Bolger. One of the Irish guys.

Of the lists that contain Enigma Foundries 5 contain Reciprocators 9 (8 wound shield wall guys) and 2 contain Eradicators (8 wound Buckler guys). Those lists are mutually exclusive (i.e. players have taken either Reciprocators or Eradicators, not both and not neither). There are also 4 units of Obstructors in the mix (single wound shield wall guys).

There are two Teraphs at the WTC which will no doubt cut down on the number of puns coming from Mr Moorhouse. One is in Ben Leepers Lylyth2 list the other is in a Lylyth2 list from Belgium. Speaking of Lylyth2 there are 10 Lylyth2 lists and no Lylyth1 at all (sad face). 7 contain no combat units, 3 contain units of raptors and one of those 3 also contains a unit of warspears. For the second time getting a mention in this analysis is Gerry Nolan (to Gerry!).

Lylyth 2 -5
Succubus +2
Naga Nightlurker +5
Ravagore +10
Ravagore +10
Annyssa Ryvaal +4
Shepherd +1
Shepherd +1
Blighted Nyss Raptors (max) +10
Blighted Ogrun Warspears (max) +8
Warspear Chieftain +2
Feralgeist +1
Feralgeist +1

Once again I really like the list and it is different from anything I've tried.

There are only 4 Totem Hunters in the WTC. One is in Leeper's Lylyth2 list, one in a Saeryn list and the rest in Minions lists (Barnabas and Rask).

Time for some Cryx 'Jack analysis
51 Nightwretches
33 Helldivers
31 Deathrippers
19 Deathjacks
10 Krakens
9 Leviathans
9 Stalkers
7 Ripjaws
7 Defiler
6 Nightmares
4 Cankerworm
2 Harrowers
2 Seethers
1 Malice

That's a big 0 lists for the Corruptor, Desecrator, Erebus, Reaper, Scavenger and Slayer warjacks. To be honest the only one that even slightly surprises me is the reaper (and it's not that surprising). What is surprising at least to me is the number of Helldivers. It's the second most popular jack and there are 11 lists featuring double helldivers. I think helldivers might be something you need to plan for going into the tournament. The other thing that surprised me was the low number of defilers. Maybe it's just me but I like auto-corrosion spray for dealing with stealth solos, shifting stones and black dragons. Then again I don't play Cryx. Also somewhat surprising is the number of Leviathans a massive chunk of that is Aiakos with the Leviathan being the most popular jack to put on him (4 out of the 9 Leviathans are on Aiakos). Of the remaining Leviathans 2 are on Deneghra 2 in lists that also include a Leviathan on Aiakos. One is on the Iron Lich Overseer in a Deneghra1 list and the last two are on Skarres (one on S1 and one on S2).

Last thing for this edition of Useless WTC stats: Colossals and Gargantuans

Stormwall 42 (61% of lists contain at least one) - with 3 double stormwall (5%)
Conquest 12 (20%)
Judicator 12 (20%)
Kraken 10 (11%)
Earthbreaker 9 (100% of Rhulic Casters, this is my favourite statstic)
Hyperion 7 (23%)
Prime Axiom 6 (43%)
Galleon 6 - no percentage here because of Gaston. 3 are in Mercs but only 2 on Merc casters. The rest are Haley1 "double down" lists. Even the one in the Ossrum list is a double colossal list.

Mountain King 0
Wold Wrath 2 (3%)
Archangel 0
Mammoth 2 (5%)

In total there are 7 double colossal lists. No double Gargantuan lists. Also no one running Magnus2 in Skorne to run a Galleon and Zaadesh with a Mammoth. (That guy would have been my hero, even more so than Spyros Pavlis).

If I have the inclination I may go through and look at some caster synergies in the future. For now though I think I have done enough and I no longer have a need to pretend like I am working.

Useless WTC Stats

Other people in other places are no doubt (I hope at least) looking at relevant WTC stats. But what about the irrelevant stats? I'm flicking through the lists today and I'm going to put down in no particular order and with no rhyme or reason things I see.

The Craptacularity

Craptacularity is what I have named my Vindictus list. Thanks to the magic of modern medicine I've been back and playing warmachine again. For some reason I took Amon to the monthly tournament that I run. I've discovered that I don't like him. One shield guard was not enough to keep him alive, I think he might work with Devout spam but I am not sure I want to play that list. 

One of the biggest things I have been working on is rounding out my Vindictus list. I made a list and when through all the choices available and I am going to summarise my thoughts here.

Idrians

I was actually incredibly tempted to take Idrians in the list. With the UA you have go to ground and you have camoflage. That makes the unit DEF 19 and immune to blast damage from shooting. It would wonderfully fit the theme of the list, unfortunately Mage Hunter Strike Force with the commander ignore cover and therefore ignore camoflage. 

Bastions

The biggest problem with Bastions is that if I spread the damage it doesn't trigger the feat. Also being 12/16 and the only things that can be shot is probably not a great thing during the not feat turn. 

Croes Cutthroats

There are three ways to do something, the right way, the wrong way and the Max Power way. It's the wrong way but faster! If you add the attendant priest these become Max Power Cutthroats, still wrong, but FASTER! 

They were considered at all because they are stealth and AD so I could counter deploy away from the riflemen if playing against Ossyan. The problem is that I'm starting to think Ret players are dumb and won't play that guy. The bad news for me is that Issyria is still a problem for Harbinger and Feora2.

Press Gangers or Boomhowlers

Add in the Attendant Priest and on feat turn there is a 50% chance (assuming Doc) that the shooting model dies and my model is still on the table. I ended up discarding this option because I'm worried about seeing Hyperion with Issyria and they make it three units that don't help with that. Also because MHSF means I can't block LOS to the attendant priest and he's 13/13 with 5 boxes. On Issyria's feat turn there is a good chance I only need one shot to take the unit out of the feat. 

Daughters

They run 16" and AD. They would be there to jam the enemy shooting. I don't see it happening though. DEF 15 is not enough DEF and I expect there to be a unit of Halberdiers or something around to clear things out. Against not Retribution I actually think they are an amazing choice and I'd be tempted to put them in anyway but I'm worried about heavies at the moment

Flamebringers

Like super daughters without AD. The unit threats 14.5" on the initial attack and then has up to three side steps. Another unit I think has promise with Vindictus that I can't put in a list targeted to Ret. 

Double Knights Exemplar

This one I played. I thought it had promise but I was worried about the shitty defensive stats of the unit and the rest of the list funneling shooting towards them. There are other problems. SPD 5 and no reach is a big one. Sure True Path brings them up to SPD 7 whereas the rest of the list goes bonkers with true path the knights just move into playable. The smaller unit sizes also make it more difficult to try and get true path off on the unit and they just don't do enough offensively. Considering how hard it is to deliver any of them I was kind of hoping that when they got there they would blow up whatever they hit but the math is kind of shitty. I don't know why it didn't click until I put them on the table because I'm a math person but it turns out that you still lose damage for everyone that dies. and you can't get a lot of them on a heavy because they don't have reach and missing is devastating... I've written too much on what I am convinced is a shitty choice.

Avatar of Menoth

I've left the one I decided on until last. Thinking more about him and having a little play experience with Vindictus (still not enough) I've realised that I should be able to keep him back against Ossyan and wait out the feat. He can be a late game beater and unless Ossyan is willing to be engaged by my infantry he isn't going to get him in the feat. Issyria I think really struggles to kill him, she certainly can't shoot him to death and that's basically enough. If by some miracle I make it to the final 4 having the Avatar is a big thing too since I can put him straight into my Harbinger list (I can even switch out a Reckoner if I want more Martyrdom).

So the list is currently:

Vice Scrutator Vindictus - WJ: +6

 - Reckoner - PC: 8 

 Avatar of Menoth - PC: 11 

 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 2 

Eiryss, Angel of Retribution - PC: 3 

Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist - PC: 2 

Initiate Tristan Durant - PC: 3 

- Redeemer - PC: 6 

Vassal of Menoth - PC: 2 

Wrack - PC: 1 

Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts PC: 2 

Holy Zealots - Leader and 9 Grunts PC: 6 

- Monolith Bearer - Monolith Bearer PC: 2 

Temple Flameguard - Leader and 9 Grunts PC: 6 

- Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard - Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard PC: 2

I also built this list which I call Max Power

Vice Scrutator Vindictus (*6pts)* Devout (5pts)Croe's Cutthroats (Croe and 9 Grunts) (10pts)* Attendant Priest (2pts)Deliverers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)Exemplar Cinerators (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)Exemplar Cinerators (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)Flameguard Cleansers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)* Flameguard Cleanser Officer (2pts)Allegiant of the Order of the Fist (2pts)Allegiant of the Order of the Fist (2pts)