The Craptacularity

Craptacularity is what I have named my Vindictus list. Thanks to the magic of modern medicine I've been back and playing warmachine again. For some reason I took Amon to the monthly tournament that I run. I've discovered that I don't like him. One shield guard was not enough to keep him alive, I think he might work with Devout spam but I am not sure I want to play that list. 

One of the biggest things I have been working on is rounding out my Vindictus list. I made a list and when through all the choices available and I am going to summarise my thoughts here.

Idrians

I was actually incredibly tempted to take Idrians in the list. With the UA you have go to ground and you have camoflage. That makes the unit DEF 19 and immune to blast damage from shooting. It would wonderfully fit the theme of the list, unfortunately Mage Hunter Strike Force with the commander ignore cover and therefore ignore camoflage. 

Bastions

The biggest problem with Bastions is that if I spread the damage it doesn't trigger the feat. Also being 12/16 and the only things that can be shot is probably not a great thing during the not feat turn. 

Croes Cutthroats

There are three ways to do something, the right way, the wrong way and the Max Power way. It's the wrong way but faster! If you add the attendant priest these become Max Power Cutthroats, still wrong, but FASTER! 

They were considered at all because they are stealth and AD so I could counter deploy away from the riflemen if playing against Ossyan. The problem is that I'm starting to think Ret players are dumb and won't play that guy. The bad news for me is that Issyria is still a problem for Harbinger and Feora2.

Press Gangers or Boomhowlers

Add in the Attendant Priest and on feat turn there is a 50% chance (assuming Doc) that the shooting model dies and my model is still on the table. I ended up discarding this option because I'm worried about seeing Hyperion with Issyria and they make it three units that don't help with that. Also because MHSF means I can't block LOS to the attendant priest and he's 13/13 with 5 boxes. On Issyria's feat turn there is a good chance I only need one shot to take the unit out of the feat. 

Daughters

They run 16" and AD. They would be there to jam the enemy shooting. I don't see it happening though. DEF 15 is not enough DEF and I expect there to be a unit of Halberdiers or something around to clear things out. Against not Retribution I actually think they are an amazing choice and I'd be tempted to put them in anyway but I'm worried about heavies at the moment

Flamebringers

Like super daughters without AD. The unit threats 14.5" on the initial attack and then has up to three side steps. Another unit I think has promise with Vindictus that I can't put in a list targeted to Ret. 

Double Knights Exemplar

This one I played. I thought it had promise but I was worried about the shitty defensive stats of the unit and the rest of the list funneling shooting towards them. There are other problems. SPD 5 and no reach is a big one. Sure True Path brings them up to SPD 7 whereas the rest of the list goes bonkers with true path the knights just move into playable. The smaller unit sizes also make it more difficult to try and get true path off on the unit and they just don't do enough offensively. Considering how hard it is to deliver any of them I was kind of hoping that when they got there they would blow up whatever they hit but the math is kind of shitty. I don't know why it didn't click until I put them on the table because I'm a math person but it turns out that you still lose damage for everyone that dies. and you can't get a lot of them on a heavy because they don't have reach and missing is devastating... I've written too much on what I am convinced is a shitty choice.

Avatar of Menoth

I've left the one I decided on until last. Thinking more about him and having a little play experience with Vindictus (still not enough) I've realised that I should be able to keep him back against Ossyan and wait out the feat. He can be a late game beater and unless Ossyan is willing to be engaged by my infantry he isn't going to get him in the feat. Issyria I think really struggles to kill him, she certainly can't shoot him to death and that's basically enough. If by some miracle I make it to the final 4 having the Avatar is a big thing too since I can put him straight into my Harbinger list (I can even switch out a Reckoner if I want more Martyrdom).

So the list is currently:

Vice Scrutator Vindictus - WJ: +6

 - Reckoner - PC: 8 

 Avatar of Menoth - PC: 11 

 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 2 

Eiryss, Angel of Retribution - PC: 3 

Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist - PC: 2 

Initiate Tristan Durant - PC: 3 

- Redeemer - PC: 6 

Vassal of Menoth - PC: 2 

Wrack - PC: 1 

Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts PC: 2 

Holy Zealots - Leader and 9 Grunts PC: 6 

- Monolith Bearer - Monolith Bearer PC: 2 

Temple Flameguard - Leader and 9 Grunts PC: 6 

- Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard - Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard PC: 2

I also built this list which I call Max Power

Vice Scrutator Vindictus (*6pts)* Devout (5pts)Croe's Cutthroats (Croe and 9 Grunts) (10pts)* Attendant Priest (2pts)Deliverers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)Exemplar Cinerators (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)Exemplar Cinerators (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)Flameguard Cleansers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)* Flameguard Cleanser Officer (2pts)Allegiant of the Order of the Fist (2pts)Allegiant of the Order of the Fist (2pts)

Menoth Lists

Wanted to commit to internet paper the lists that I have been playing and the changes so far. 

Harbinger
I started playing the Harbinger with my 2012 list.

Harbinger of Menoth (*5pts)
* Devout (5pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
* Hierophant (2pts)
Vessel of Judgement (9pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard Bearer (2pts)
Exemplar Errant Seneschal (2pts)
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts)
The Covenant of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal Mechanik (1pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

This was a really strong list in 2012 but the meta has shifted. I quickly found that the Vessel was not doing enough. I needed something that wanted to get further forwards, something that could sit in a second zone. I looked at a number of options to fill the gap but the problem is that this list is meant to be an all comers list. Putting in the Avatar for example makes the list a lot stronger against Skorne and Trolls but much weaker against Cryx. Daughters have the opposite effect on the list. Right now the list is:

Harbinger of Menoth (*5pts)
* Devout (5pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
* Hierophant (2pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard Bearer (2pts)
Horgenhold Forge Guard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Attendant Priest (2pts)
Exemplar Errant Seneschal (2pts)
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts)
The Covenant of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

I am incredibly happy with it as it stands. Some features of the list - this list can be almost completely immune to spells without even using the spell immunity from the book. You are able to attack in waves, first no knock down martyrdom toughing the errants and then shifting focus to the dwarves. Both the errants and the dwarves are able to gain magical weapons and the book can hand that out as well and both the errants and the dwarves are able to get pathfinder without using rhupert. Also the dwarves can take advantage of crusaders call for 11" of charge threat which is also pretty good.

Kreoss3
I liked the theme force for Kreoss right off the bat and I have two units of Vengers for reasons that make no sense to anyone who isn't me. I started off playing this list:

Intercessor Kreoss (*5pts)
* Revenger (6pts)
* Crusader (5pts)
* Crusader (5pts)
* Fire of Salvation (8pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Exemplar Vengers (Leader and 4 Grunts) (11pts)
Exemplar Vengers (Leader and 4 Grunts) (11pts)
Reclaimer (2pts)
Vassal Mechanik (1pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

 5 point Crusaders are insane but the list has a massive weakness in the lack of ranged attacks. Also I felt like most turns I wanted to cycle ignite from Venger unit to Venger unit or onto one of the jacks so he didn't have a lot of focus left over. The Revenger just wasn't doing anything (other than looking threatening and baiting in heavies, which I suppose is something but not 1 point more than a crusader something). That left me with two options. 1. Bugger it, live without ranged attacks, add in another crusader and call it a day. 2. Abandon Tier 4 for a tier 2 and bring in some trusty Reckoners. I went for option 2. 

Intercessor Kreoss - WJ: +5
- Reckoner - PC: 8
- Reckoner - PC: 8
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 2
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 2
Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1
Knights Exemplar Seneschal - PC: 3
Knights Exemplar Seneschal - PC: 3
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 2
Exemplar Vengers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 11
Exemplar Vengers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 11
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard - Rhoven, Gius, and Cassian: 4

Again I feel like I've hit a winner. The Seneschal I feel is one of the most undervalued models in Menoth. It just does so much stuff. I really prefer it with a threat extender like Crusaders Call or True Path but it's job in this list is to sit in scenario zones because the cav sure as hell don't want to all cram together to fit in a box 6" across (I feel like there's a your mother joke in that sentence). I had a crap ton of fun playing this list and I highly recommend it. I'm not sure how competitive it is, you should probably not drop it against Lylyth2 but I love the crap out of it.

Feora2

Feora, Priestess of the Flame (*6pts)
* Judicator (18pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
Temple Flameguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard (2pts)
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & 2 Honor Guard (4pts)
Reclaimer (2pts)
The Wrack (3 wracks) (1pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

The one list I have not changed. The only change I can see being made to this list is to drop the wracks (which I find I don't need in some games) for a mechanic. This list is my circle drop and it is great against circle. It's also designed to be a generalist list. The flameguard are amazing in this list, you can charge your opponent and set everything alight or you can shield wall, iron zeal and they can stab each other and then you can feat the fire onto whatever needs to die. The judicator is amazing and it helps with Feora's low focus and reckoners are just amazing in general. Especially against circle where flare on a warpwolf generally means that warpwolf is leaving the table. It's not quite as fun as Kreoss3 but I think it is more strongly competitive. 

Vindictus

Looking at my Menoth lists I was noticing a weakness vs Ossyan. This is an issue because I am considering taking Menoth to IG and if I was a Ret player my first pic for IG would be Ossyan (I assume a lot of players will be looking to take a colossal to 75 points). After testing Kreoss3 and Thyra and rejecting them I have settled on Vindictus. The list has been:

Vice Scrutator Vindictus (*6pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
Avatar of Menoth (11pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Holy Zealots (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Holy Zealot Monolith Bearer (2pts)
Temple Flameguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard (2pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Initiate Tristan Durant (3pts)
* Redeemer (6pts)
The Wrack (3 wracks) (1pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

Vice Scrutator Vindictus (*6pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Holy Zealots (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Holy Zealot Monolith Bearer (2pts)
Knights Exemplar (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Knights Exemplar (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Temple Flameguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard (2pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Initiate Tristan Durant (3pts)
* Redeemer (6pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

and is currently

Vice Scrutator Vindictus (*6pts)
* Reckoner (8pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Holy Zealots (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Holy Zealot Monolith Bearer (2pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Temple Flameguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard (2pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Initiate Tristan Durant (3pts)
* Redeemer (6pts)
Knight Exemplar Seneschal (3pts)
Knight Exemplar Seneschal (3pts)
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor (2pts)
Taryn di la Rovissi (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

Of all the lists that I have been playing since coming back to Menoth this one is the least settled. No idea where I am going to end up going with this one. I know the core of the list but there are a lot of floating points that I just don't know what to do with. 

Kromac - Back To The Drawing Board

Before I start talking about Kromac I'll mention that I am looking at running mini tournaments on a friday night at hall of heroes. Small points, quick rounds, 3 games in a night. It will either be 35 points or 20-25 points with some funky rules, like highlander or mangled metal/tooth and claw. So far there has been interest from the Campbelltown crew, if the Wollongong guys are reading this and would be interested let me know.

The first and most important thing to recognize before you start tinkering with a list that has had a lot of success is to recognise that the problem is you. The list is good, you aren't making improvements you are changing it to do something different. It's not even an issue of the list not being your playstyle, you just have not been able to master the playstyle of the list or in some situations you want a list that does something different to cover a weakness in your pairing.

In this case I want a Kromac list with more scenario presence so I can see two different ways to do that.

1. Get scenario pieces - put some models in the list that are good at holding zones. I have two ideas in that regard, winter arguses (probably terrible but I'm going to play it and see) and Skinwalkers (probably pretty good with inviolable resolve, maybe not fast enough). 

2. Get a screen - Basically satyxis raiders. I want a unit that can push forwards and buy me table position so that I can then give it up warpath/sprinting without losing on scenario. Unfortunately due to a slight oversight you can't take satyxis raiders in circle. You can however take blood trackers, add in a witch doc croc and they can really get forwards, a few can survive and just hold off your opponent from flooding the zone so that your wolves can happily yoyo up to them and back to safety. 

My thoughts before testing:

Winter argus - actually quite difficult to kill with DEF 15 especially if it can find some terrain in the zone and get it's animus up. It gives me the added benefit of allowing Kromac to man mode. He can put inviolable resolve and winter coat on himself for 4 and still camp a few fury so that he can beast out when hit and go to ARM 21. The issues I can see is that they aren't going to kill much and are probably only going to buy me an extra turn of not having to leave anything important in the zone. Still I think it's janky, they have the crit stationary spray which is interesting and with two sprays might actually get some infantry. I want to give it a go before I dismiss it.

Skinwalkers - SPD 5 is the issue. I can leave the Woldstalkers in the list but that then leaves Kromac with only Ghettorix and a stalker (and his trusty old gorax). They'll get into zones but they don't buy me any table position. Also I doubt cryx will have much trouble removing them even with inviolable resolve.

Blood trackers - I'm already starting to lean this way because I think they have the most versatility here. I can play the old style of list and have them sit back and shoot to help me clear infantry (and to put some more damage on heavies) or I can use them to jam forwards and buy table position. Witch doc croc is essential here because this is going to be my Cryx match up and undead/fearless really help with that but also tough makes the screen just that little bit more survivable and helps the wolves really get stuff done. One of the main issues here is points. If I take everything I want in this list I get to 51 points:

Faction: Circle Orboros
Casters: 1/1
Points: 51/50
Kromac the Ravenous (*4pts)
* Gorax (4pts)
* Ghetorix (11pts)
* Warpwolf Stalker (10pts)
* Warpwolf Stalker (10pts)
Shifting Stones (2pts)
* Stone keeper (1pts)
Shifting Stones (2pts)
Tharn Bloodtrackers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Nuala the Huntress (2pts)
Druid Wilder (2pts)
Gatorman Witch Doctor (3pts)

There isn't a lot I can drop either. I think it has to be a Stalker that gets downgraded to a Pureblood or maybe when he is finally released a riphorn. 

So the lists I intend to trial are:

Kromac the Ravenous (*4pts)
* Gorax (4pts)
* Winter Argus (5pts)
* Winter Argus (5pts)
* Ghetorix (11pts)
* Warpwolf Stalker (10pts)
Shifting Stones (2pts)
* Stone keeper (1pts)
Shifting Stones (2pts)
Stoneward and 5 Woldstalkers (5pts)
Stoneward and 5 Woldstalkers (5pts)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew (Leader and 1 Grunt) (1pts)
Druid Wilder (2pts)
Gallows Grove (1pts)

Kromac the Ravenous (*4pts)
* Gorax (4pts)
* Ghetorix (11pts)
* Warpwolf Stalker (10pts)
* Warpwolf Stalker (10pts)
Shifting Stones (2pts)
* Stone keeper (1pts)
Shifting Stones (2pts)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew (Leader and 1 Grunt) (1pts)
Warpborn Skinwalkers (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)
* Warpborn Alpha (3pts)
Druid Wilder (2pts)

and

Kromac the Ravenous (*4pts)
* Gorax (4pts)
* Ghetorix (11pts)
* Pureblood Warpwolf (9pts)
* Warpwolf Stalker (10pts)
Shifting Stones (2pts)
* Stone keeper (1pts)
Shifting Stones (2pts)
Tharn Bloodtrackers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Nuala the Huntress (2pts)
Druid Wilder (2pts)
Gatorman Witch Doctor (3pts)

Kill Me, Also Continuing the Flu Streak

Still sick so I'm going to try to continue my crazy list streak. Today it's Amon Ad Raza. I still don't know if I'm going to look back on this and wonder if I had gone nuts.

Thoughts - Mobility in Menoth has to be good. He man only have 6 focus but I can bring reclaimers and some dudes and focus efficient jacks. Also Wracks and a Heirophant and he casts Mobility for free.

Dervishes - SPD 5 and no reach. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the people spamming dervishes are wrong.

Theme force - two unit of Idrians, 3 monks and no heavies. Also wrong (I assume these two incorrect points form one list of wrongness)

Protectorate of Menoth
Standard Army
PCs: 50 / 50
34 models

[00] High Allegiant Amon Ad-Raza (0 / 6 WJ remaining)
[02]  >> Hierophant
[09]  >> Scourge of Heresy
[08]  >> Reckoner
[08]  >> Reckoner
[04]  >> Repenter
[04]  >> Repenter
[02] Reclaimer
[02] Reclaimer
[02] Vassal of Menoth
[02] Vassal of Menoth
[01] The Wrack (3)
[02] Choir of Menoth (3 grunts)
[02] Choir of Menoth (3 grunts)
[06] Temple Flameguard (9 grunts)
[02]  >> Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard

Here is my thinking. Two choir let me battle some jacks (say the two spray bots) and still passage the other jacks to keep them safe from shooting. Also I had two points left over. Recalimers sit behind the Flamegaurd collecting souls. Two so one will be alive on the important turn (when I need my heavies to wreck face in melee). I can build up a small synergy chain but I'm not relying on it, all the jacks can do work without Synergy. Scourge is the one I'm not sure about. Mostly because he doesn't have reach. SPD 4 and no reach is an issue. With mobility and charging his threat is decent but I'm still not 100% sold. He is however a spectacular beater, gives me some defence and some offence against spells

More Flu Dojo

I have more flu affected dojo. It's a Haley1 list:

Cygnar
Standard Army
PCs: 50 / 50
19 models

[00] Captain Victoria Haley (0 / 5 WJ remaining)
[02]  >> Squire
[04]  >> Sentinel
[04]  >> Sentinel
[03] Lieutenant Allison Jakes
[09]  >> Gallant
[06] Arcane Tempest Gun Mages
[02]  >> Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer
[03] Eiryss, Angel of Retribution
[03] Gastone Crosse
[09]  >> Rocinante
[04]  >> Vanguard
[04]  >> Vanguard
[02] Harlan Versh, Illuminated One

The basic idea was to put Gaston in a Haley list because gun and run is pretty good when your opponent can't run or charge as is -2 DEF on all his stuff so you don't have to boost to hit. I put in the two Vanguards because 4 point Vanguards and I think Rocinante (aka Tipsy McStagger) has the best gun of the Merc jacks. Two sentinals allow Haley to not have to feed her jacks and gives me more infantry removal. From there I wanted something that could take some heavy hitters so I decided to bring in Jakes with another heavy. I originally had Stormclad but I decided that Gallant with Sidekick holding a zone with Temporal Barrier up just seems like a huge kick in the nuts. This one I'm not as confident about as my stupid Zerkova list. I'm actually going to have to put this one on the table before I decide whether or not it is garbage.

Good things - Haley can camp focus to cancel spells and the list has 5 shield guards. I'm not sure my opponent can kill anything in this list. Ever. Especially when you add in that Rocinante has Arcane Shield and Gallant has Side Kick. 

Bad Things - I'm not sure how much I can kill.

I also have a list where I went ever more extreme, figured I'd take advantage of the fact that half my list is immortal and add some utility solos in place of the gun mages. Haley largely loses her feat but that's almost a good thing. I can hold it until I really need it. For example if I see an assassination opportunity or Gallant is charging in on a heavy and I'm not sure he can get it done. 

Cygnar

Standard Army

PCs: 52 / 50

17 models

[00] Captain Victoria Haley (0 / 5 WJ remaining)

[02]  >> Squire

[04]  >> Sentinel

[04]  >> Sentinel

[03] Lieutenant Allison Jakes

[09]  >> Gallant

[04] Black 13th Gun Mage Strike Team

[02] Taryn Di La Rovissi, Llaelese Gun Mage

[02] Gorman Di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist

[03] Eiryss, Angel of Retribution

[03] Gastone Crosse

[09]  >> Rocinante

[05]  >> Vanguard

[05]  >> Vanguard

[02] Harlan Versh, Illuminated One

Flu + Thinking About Warmachine = Zerkova?

A lot of people say that Zerkova is the worst caster in the game (me, I say that) but today whilst lying in bed and praying for the sweet release of death and I decided to prove those jerks wrong. (Still not particularly interested in playing Khador but I do like to make stupid lists).

Idea - Zerkova has to have a scenario game. Force blast is repulsion on crack and she has bulldozing jacks.

So I wanted a list with - 2 bulldozing jacks, infantry clearing, jamming and the ability to force command checks. Here is what I ended up with:

Khador
Standard Army
PCs: 50 / 50
28 models

[00] Koldun Kommander Alekandra Zerkova (0 / 6 WJ remaining)
[02]  >> Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker
[10]  >> Black Ivan
[10]  >> Spriggan
[05] Fenris
[02] Widowmaker Marksman
[06] Doom Reavers
[06] Doom Reavers
[04] Widowmakers
[04] Alexia, Mistress of the Witchfire
[02] Saxon Orrik
[01] Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator
[04] Tactical Arcanist Corps

I can force 4 command checks just from terror/abomination and a 5th if I hit with Hellfire and a 6th if I get the unit to half strength. There is 6-12" of pushing I can do for anything I want moved out of the zone and if you are trying to sure up a models position with single wound models I can pick them off fairly easily with widowmakers. Sylys and Reinholdt make her very accurate in throwing out Icy Grips and if she gets to a position where she can icy grip a caster you have a bunch of boostable guns in the list and the marksmen. The TAC keep her alive. Doom Reavers are also advance deploy so they get up the table pretty quickly which you can use to buy yourself more board position. She is pretty happy dominating the friendly zone behind a cloud wall. 

I don't think this is terrible. I'm not sure it's good but I think you can play this list.

Night Troll and now Zerkova... maybe I shouldn't warmachine when I'm sick...

35 Point Circle Armies

Pfffffffffffffffft.

Circle kind of sucks at 35 points. Here is what I have:

Circle Orboros

Standard Army

PCs: 35 / 35

19 models

[00] Kaya the Wildborne (0 / 6 WB)

[02]  >> Druid Wilder

[10]  >> Warpwolf Stalker

[10]  >> Warpwolf Stalker

[04]  >> Gorax

[02] Shifting Stones

[02] Shifting Stones

[01]  >> Stone Keeper

[01] Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew

[09] Gatorman Posse (4 grunts)

I think she is one of the few casters in circle who is happy to see the 35 point limit. I figure I give her a go and then use one of the 50 point casters I intend to take to CoO to get some practice with them. So:

Circle Orboros
Standard Army
PCs: 35 / 35
21 models

[00] Kromac the Ravenous (0 / 4 WB)
[02]  >> Druid Wilder
[10]  >> Warpwolf Stalker
[10]  >> Warpwolf Stalker
[04]  >> Gorax
[02] Blackclad Wayfarer
[05] Druid Stoneward & Woldstalkers
[02] Shifting Stones
[01]  >> Stone Keeper
[02] Shifting Stones
[01] Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew

That's a terrible list. Although when it comes to CoO I am feeling the Cassius love atm. He was pretty sweet at the last tournament. I'm also looking at Morvahna1, I think she does well against Cryx and can grind against heavies fairly well. 

Survivorship Bias

Up until the super series I was having a lot of success in skewing my lists towards assassination, in fact I had hit 15+ assassinations in a row (out of attempted assassinations not out of games won and lost) and the only games I had lost were games I had tried to play attrition in. I was starting to feel like assassinating was the way to go and that I was more likely to win that way than playing attrition. What I was overlooking was that I was playing smart and only assassinating when I had a very high percentage chance of the assassination succeeding. Vayl2 in particular encourages that type of smart play. Skewing my lists, in particular my Lylyth lists more towards assassination and going for assassinations in situations where attrition play was probably a greater percentage chance for success for me hurt me a great deal in the super series. That's what surivorship bias is by the way, it's looking only at those things that "survived" some process or thing. In this case I was judging the strength of assassination play by looking at how good the assassinations were that had "survived" my judgement process that the assassination was a good idea.

So I'm trying to learn from that and in that vein I think I will change my Kreoss list. The one I put up yesterday was:

Protectorate of Menoth
Standard Army
PCs: 35 / 35
26 models

[00] High Exemplar Kreoss (0 / 5 WJ remaining)
[08]  >> Reckoner
[06]  >> Redeemer
[06]  >> Redeemer
[02] Vassal of Menoth
[02] Vassal of Menoth
[01] The Wrack (3)
[02] Choir of Menoth (3 grunts)
[08] Exemplar Errants (9 grunts)
[02]  >> Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard
[03] Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios

The problem with this list is that the only thing that kills heavies in it is the Reckoner. The Redeemers need the feat in order to shoot most heavies or need the Reckoner to tag it first and then still miss 1-2 of their 4 boosted damage shots. That said it kills infantry dead and has a really strong assassination threat. Almost nothing can survive purification, knock down, Boosted POW 15, unboosted 15, 7 x POW 14s. (Or a boosted 15, two boosted 14s and unboosted 15 and three unboosted 14s).

Protectorate of Menoth
Standard Army
PCs: 35 / 35
27 models

[00] High Exemplar Kreoss (0 / 5 WJ remaining)
[08]  >> Reckoner
[08]  >> Reckoner
[02] Exemplar Errant Seneschal
[02] Vassal of Menoth
[02] Vassal of Menoth
[01] The Wrack (3)
[02] Choir of Menoth (3 grunts)
[08] Exemplar Errants (9 grunts)
[02]  >> Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard
[02] Gorman Di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist
[03] Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios

This list has a much less vicious assassination threat. At best there are two boosted POW 15s and two unboosted POW 15s (as well as errant shots if needed). That's still a decent assassination threat. It also relies a lot less on the feat.

That or there is my old Kreoss list from before I bought errants:

Protectorate of Menoth
Standard Army
PCs: 35 / 35
26 models

[00] High Exemplar Kreoss (0 / 5 WJ remaining)
[08]  >> Reckoner
[08]  >> Reckoner
[06]  >> Redeemer
[02] Vassal of Menoth
[02] Vassal of Menoth
[01] The Wrack (3)
[02] Choir of Menoth (3 grunts)
[06] Temple Flameguard (9 grunts)
[02]  >> Temple Flameguard Officer & Standard
[03] Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios

This list relies a lot less on the feat turn than the above lists. Temple flameguard with defenders ward are ridiculous. Particularly if they are sitting just behind a Reckoner. That's quite possibly the most ludicrous thing ever. (DEF 13, +2 for defenders ward, +2 for set defence, +2 for Ashen Veil, it's like playing Kayazy except that your ARM is also ridiculously good and the unit costs less points and has reach). 

I don't know. I have to make a decision before Sunday. The last list is fully painted so that may win me over. That will also leave me with two lists with very little pathfinder (as in none really). 

Tournament List

Here is my single list 35 point tournament list.

Legion of Everblight
Machinations of Shadow (Vayl, Consul of Everblight)
(Tier 4)
PCs: 35 / 35
25 models

[00] Vayl, Consul of Everblight (0 / 6 WB)
[08]  >> Scythean
[08]  >> Angelius
[08]  >> Angelius
[02]  >> Harrier
[01] Blighted Nyss Shepherd
[01] Blighted Nyss Shepherd
[04] Blighted Nyss Sorceress & Hellion
[06] Blighted Nyss Legionnaires (9 grunts)
[03] Spawning Vessel (6 grunts)

Why this list?

So I have a lot of choices when it comes to making a single list for a tournament but in the end it came down to three choices. The other two for curiosities sake were:

Mercenaries

Four Star Syndicate

PCs: 35 / 35

10 models

[00] Captain Bartolo Montador (0 / 5 WJ remaining)

[02]  >> Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker

[18]  >> Galleon

[02] Ragman

[02] Master Gunner Dougal Macnaile

[09] Wrong Eye

[00]  >> Snapjaw (Companion)

[03]  >> Bull Snapper

[04] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt

Cygnar

Standard Army

PCs: 35 / 35

14 models

[00] Major Victoria Haley (0 / 5 WJ remaining)

[02]  >> Squire

[19]  >> Stormwall

[03] Journeyman Warcaster

[06] Arcane Tempest Gun Mages

[02]  >> Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer

[02] Gorman Di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist

[03] Eiryss, Angel of Retribution

[03] Ogrun Bokur

If you think that Haley2 list is odd you are correct. Rather than the standard Haley2 list I teched one to give me an advantage in the mirror match. 

I rate myself as a half decent player, If I can give myself a fighting chance at the start of the game then I will back myself to win it. If you try and build a list that gives you too much of an advantage against some builds (for example you could take a Lylyth2 build with 3 ravagores) then you find yourself with some very bad matchups with you fighting heavily uphill. Even in a two list format the Bart Galleon player has another list. Whereas a more balanced list will still be strong against the good matchups but it still gives you a fighting chance in the not so good match ups (going back to Lylyth2 this would probably include Typhon instead of a third ravagore and the BFS as well and suddenly your list is good in melee). 

What I want, especially in a one list environment is a list that has at least some fight against everything in the game. I want some answers for high ARM, I want some answers for high DEF, I want to be able to kill a colossal, I want to be able to kill a swarm of infantry. The list can't be shut down by Stormwall (the spell), or by Bestial or by covering fire templates (or Stormwall, not the spell), countermeasures, shadow pack, the choir, swamp pits, Janissa and the krielstone, crippling grasp, cloud or forest spam, inhospitable ground or mage hunter strike force. 

Straight up purification answers more than half of those problems. High DEF and high ARM are almost always upkeeps and animi and a lot of those other effects are spells. Legion handles a lot of the rest, pathfinder and eyeless sight are huge. I have talked before about attrition vs scenario vs assassination. Vayl2 does all 3 and does them wonderfully. Double angels can repluse to clear zones/flags, she has 25" on the double obliteration assassinations. With refuge pulling the Angels to safety and admonition keeping the Scythean alive, and occultation and the pot making new lessers she attritions really well. It's quite hard to get to her beasts and her infantry turns into shredders (and on rare occasions stingers and harriers). It is straight up good. Even against Bart Galleon it has some answers, purification drops hot shot and all the animuses (including submerge on Wrong Eye). With a Naga I could assassinate Bart quite easily without one I can still get to the support staff. If I set Bart on fire then the assassanation is on the table. Against Haley2 who I think you always have to make sure you have a fighting game against, the assassination is greater than 80% on her feat turn. I don't care if I go 1-4 with this list if that one win is killing Haley2 on her feat turn. 

Ashlynn the Pirate (sorry Ed)

So I may have had a stroke of genius this morning while slacking off and pretending to work. I was thinking about Ashlynn and the same dilemma she always poses - how to get her to deal with heavies without brining forge-guard as they are one of the few things that still die protected by her feat. My brain did the warmachine equivalent of a wikipedia freefall and then landed somewhere I think is interesting. A warning for all those out-there in internet land the following is dojo and thus far untested:

Mercenaries
Highborn Covenant
PCs: 50 / 50
36 models

[00] Ashlynn D'elyse (0 / 6 WJ remaining)
[02]  >> Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker
[09]  >> Rocinante
[09]  >> Gallant
[02] Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord
[03] Eiryss, Angel of Retribution
[02] Bosun Grogspar
[02] Doc Killingsworth
[02] Lord Rockbottom, Expedition Financier
[02] Harlan Versh, Illuminated One
[04] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt
[08] Sea Dog Crew (9 grunts)
[02]  >> Mr. Walls, the Quartermaster
[03]  >> Sea Dog Crew Rifleman (3 Riflemen)
[06] Press Gangers (9 grunts)

So theory behind this list is I can deal with ARM because I have Gallant and Rocinante, two P+S 17 heavies and two ARM fixers in Eiryss and Aiyana and Holt. I also have both guard dog and a shield guard for Ashlynn to help her get forward safely and Wyshnalyr to increase the range of her spells and give her some extra focus. Versh helps focus efficiency too giving an additional focus to the Gallant which is why I'm not too worried about her running two heavies. When I charge in, particularly on feat turn Rocinante only needs one to boost damage on his gun and Gallant only needs two because of his accumulator. 3 focus is the same as running only one heavy.

Now the bit I really like, the pirates. Both pirate units get advance deployment as do all the solos. If you go first you quicken the press gangers and then run. You deploy 10" your opponent deploys 7" (17") you advance deploy 6" (23") and run 16" (39"). So you are 9" from their deployment line and 3" from their AD line. With a 4+ tough unit with no knock down, DEF 15 from shooting. It's going to be very hard for much of your opponent to get past this unit. Next turn the Sea Dogs hit boosted by the feat and protected by the feat, still 4+ tough, though you've probably lost no knock down (since Grogspar is on a medium base). At the end of this round you can score, Ashlynn gets into the scoring zone to dominate, if you dominate on your opponents turn the game is pretty much over. Your opponent is still stuck in their advance deployment zone. They can trample over stuff with jacks/beasts but then they cop the sea dogs + the ARM fixers or the Gallant and they are going to leave their caster and whatever else doesn't trample facing units that can boost their attack rolls.

So while this list is especially brutal when you go first I still like it when you go second. Your Sea Dogs are going to shoot your opponent turn 1, their threat range shooting is 1" out of your opponents advance deployment line. They can also charge 13" (with 0.5" reach) so if your opponent advance deployed and ran or moved more than 12" you can safely declare a charge turn1. It still gets way up into the middle of the table. Ashlynn can get forward with the protection from her jacks (and admonition if you are feeling threatened). She can often dominate the closer objective without difficulty, throw out distractions and feed both her jacks. Pirates are DEF 13, 15 against range with Quicken and their super tough works combined with the feat makes it so hard to slog through them.

UPDATE:
There has been a very small amount of playtesting and some points crunching and unfortunately the list I went out and designed specifically to not have forge guard now has forge guard. Le sigh. They are just the best option she has available for killing heavies other than bringing in a Galleon. The current list:


Mercenaries
Highborn Covenant
PCs: 50 / 50
53 models

[00] Ashlynn D'elyse (0 / 6 WJ remaining)
[02]  >> Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker
[09]  >> Rocinante
[02] Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord
[02] Gorman Di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist
[03] Eiryss, Angel of Retribution
[02] Bosun Grogspar
[02] Doc Killingsworth
[02] Lord Rockbottom, Expedition Financier
[05] Alexia Ciannor & the Risen (9)
[08] Horgenhold Forge Guard (9 grunts)
[08] Sea Dog Crew (9 grunts)
[02]  >> Mr. Walls, the Quartermaster
[03]  >> Sea Dog Crew Rifleman (3 Riflemen)
[06] Press Gangers (9 grunts)

Still doesn't infringe on the characters in my Bart Galleon list which is important. The only thing that may change is that Alexia or three riflemen and Gorman may be switched out for a Vanguard. The list still plays the same. Quickened press gang jam my opponent and try to set the battle line so that all the scoring zones are behind my pirates. Sea Dogs in behing the press gang and Forge Guard mop up anything that has managed to get past the pirates. 

Merc Lists

With the impending release of the Galleon I have gone Mercs in the league so I've gone through and organised my Merc lists for 35 points. They are below the jump because otherwise they'll take up too much space.

Reinventing the Wheel - Building a Harbinger list

I thought I'd take a break from the general list building posts that I've been doing (I'm still a little iffy about how well they apply, they feel too general to me) and do a specific caster. In this case its the Harbinger of Menoth. I will admit that I am at least partially writing this to put off assembling the model as it looks really tricky.

What does she do?
Her feat hits anything moving towards her with a POW 14 fire damage roll which will kill pretty much all single wound infantry in the game and quite a few multiple wound infantry as well. It will also put the hurt on beasts and jacks, a lot of people write it off against those models but an already damaged beast/jack is likely to lose a spiral and a little bit of damage can be the difference between a fully functional beast and one in the dirt.

Next she has crusaders call increasing the distance you can charge, guided hand which is an additional dice on melee attack rolls (attack not damage rolls). Purification (on a 20" control area), Awe - living models are -2 on attack rolls when within 10" of her) and Martyrdom - she can take some damage to stop a model (freindly faction, warrior, non warcaster) from dying again within 10" of her. She also has Cataclysm which is a nuke spell that automatically hits and the POW is determined by the distance from Harbinger. In a pinch she can assassinate.

What do I want the list to do?
So I can see a few different ways to build a list for her. You can alpha strike, use the feat to stop your opponent coming towards you, get some extra SPD with Crusaders Call and use Guided Hand to hit (and purification to remove any defensive upkeeps). You can build a skew list, abuse awe and martyrdom (and the feat), heal Harbinger with her focus (and a Heirophant) and pick models that are already difficult to kill. I want to start her out as a counter-punch combined arms gunline. Use the feat to gain an extra turn of shooting and then charge in and kill everything with her melee buffs.

Along those lines what are models that are great at both melee and shooting:
Errants
Reckoners
Vessel of Judgement

I can also throw in some Martyrdom abuse, I already have that with the errants. Standard gunline stuff applies (stealth and magical weapons mainly since this is a combined arms gunline).

First Draft List


Protectorate of Menoth
Standard Army
PCs: 35 / 35
28 models

[00] The Harbinger of Menoth (0 / 5 WJ remaining)
[02]  >> Hierophant
[08]  >> Reckoner
[06]  >> Redeemer
[02] The Covenant of Menoth
[02] Exemplar Errant Seneschal
[03] Knights Exemplar Seneschal
[02] Vassal of Menoth
[01] The Wrack (3)
[02] Choir of Menoth (3 grunts)
[08] Exemplar Errants (9 grunts)
[02]  >> Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard
[02] Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord

Alright so lets start off with Rhupert and the Covenant with errants in a harbinger list. I can tough the errants and give them no knock down. If you kill an errant I tough roll, if I fail that I can martyrdom or self sacrifice. It's two extra layers of bullshit on a unit that was already annoying. Reckoner is pretty standard, it shoots and it fights really well. I'd really like to have two but didn't have the points (it's 10 points because then I need a second Vassal). The redeemer is in there for it's dual role, it can just drop down 3-4 AOEs on stealth or high DEF units or if I battle I can have the Reckoner shoot a heavy first and then have the Redeemer plough 2 boosted damage rolls into the heavy, when you combine the choir bonus, aiming and the Reckoner bonus you're back up to effective RAT 7 even though it's innacurate (-4 to hit) and RAT 5. Boosted POW 14s are good against heavies especially when you purify away all their defensive shenanigans. Wracks and the Hierophant give me even more focus, and some healing. She'll need it if she wants to feed both jacks, cast spells and heal Martyrdom damage. That leaves me with exactly 3 points left and a little wary of cracking high ARM. The Knight Exemplar Seneschal is a great high POW 3 point beatstick and he's super hard to kill so in he goes and the list is done. 

Finding Someone Willing to Play Against the Harbinger

:) I'll be nice, I promise. 

Building A Skew List

I haven't talked a lot about skew lists. The idea behind skew lists is to do the opposite of balance a list. For example you can skew high DEF, you put as much high DEF stuff into a list as possible. Most lists try to do stuff, skew lists instead say to your opponent - can you deal with this? If they can't you win and if they can you generally lose. There are a lot of different ways you can skew a list, the most common is probably high DEF in Khador. Where you take Kayazy and Winterguard or Nyss Hunters and abuse Iron Flesh (and sometimes Weald Secrets). It's not just high DEF or high ARM you can skew a list with. The 42 doomreavers list (Epic Zoktavir theme force) is a skew list. Pretty much all double Colossal lists are skew lists, you won't get the same offensive power out of two colossals as you will almost anything else but if your opponent can't deal with two colossals you'll win and while most lists can deal with one colossal as it stands probably the majority cannot deal with two. 

You still need to be able to deal with:

• Heavies

• Infantry

• High ARM

• High DEF

Mostly though you are trying to ask your opponent a question. If you are making things difficult to kill they need to be as difficult to kill as possible. If you are going for a swarm of something it needs to be as big as possible. Go for overkill, an ARM 22 Galleon is probably going to be very difficult to kill but an ARM 24 Galleon is going to be impossible for most armies and that's what your skew list needs to aim for. 

Example

Trollbloods
Standard Army
PCs: 50 / 50
17 models

[00] Madrak Ironhide, Thornwood Chieftain (0 / 6 WB)
[12]  >> Mulg the Ancient
[10]  >> Earthborn Dire Troll
[10]  >> Dire Troll Bomber
[09]  >> Dire Troll Mauler
[06]  >> Troll Axer
[03] Janissa Stonetide
[02] Troll Whelps
[03] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (3 grunts)
[01]  >> Stone Scribe Elder

Madrak has sure foot so a model and all models within 3" get +2 DEF. The earthborn animus gives me +2 ARM when in 3" of a wall and Janissa gives me a wall that I can place wherever I want. The wall also gives me cover against shooting (another +4 DEF) and +2 DEF if you are striking me in melee over the obstacle. The Krielstone gives me another +2 ARM and I end up with 4 heavies on anywhere between DEF 14 and 18, ARM 22 or 23, with whelps, snacking and regeneration to heal them back up. The Bomber and Axer kill infantry and I have two big AOEs so high DEF isn't a big problem. The Mauler has a great strength buff as do the stones and the Earthborn and Mulg are high P+S to start with. Madrak's feat allows models to move an inch and attack again for free whenever they kill a model and he can give them +2 to hit. The only real problem with the list is that I can't get elemental communication on the Axer so it is only ARM 20. Poor little Axer, he never gets any love, he doesn't even have a chicken.

There aren't a lot of armies that can deal with 4 ARM 22 or higher heavies, particularly when they also have to contend with mostly DEF 16 and also need reach to attack at least two of the beasts in melee. Of course if your opponent has enough buffs to get over that hurdle then you have 4 slow beasts, only one of which has reach and they only need to remove 5 models to defeat the list. A good example of a counter to this list is Kreoss1. Purification lowers all your ARM by 2 (except on the earthborn) and gets rid of sure foot (lowers DEF by 2 and can be knocked down). You can then use your knockdown feat to shoot Madrak or just beat  a few heavies out of the game with your choir buffs. 

Building an Alpha Strike List

What does it do?The idea behind an alpha strike list is to hit your opponent first and hit them so hard that their counter attack is blunted and they cannot do as much damage to you back. This is not as simple as merely getting the charge. An experienced player will spread out their units frontwise (forwards and backwards, needs to be a word for this, there probably is and I just need to ask someone who actually speaks English). They'll stop you from being able to engage the majority of the unit. Important beasts/jacks will be hidden behind cheaper models (often with someone like Alexia picking up their souls to create more models for your opponent). Other feats and spells will stop you from attacking key models. Some of this in unavoidable and just makes the bad match ups any list faces but if you can't deal with at least some of these tactics your alpha strike list is not going to work very well.

• Heavies

• Infantry

• High ARM

• High DEF

I also need for my alpha strike:

• Threat Range (the maximum distance away your model can be from mine where I can still attack you). I have to be able to out threat my opponent in order to alpha strike. High SPD is good, reach is good, pathfinder is also important.
• Damage Potential - I need to be able to kill what I hit.
• Protection on the approach. If your opponent can shoot you to death or set all your models on fire then you won't have enough for an effective alpha strike.
• A way to clear screening units/models. I want to attack as many models as possible. My opponent is going to attempt to place his models to minimise that. I need to be able to kill, move or otherwise get past those models to attack the bulk of his army and in particular the valuable models. 
• Caster protection. When your army is tearing across the table instead of standing and shooting and when you need to throw in as many models as possible to blunt your opponents counter attack you'll find your caster is more exposed. 

What do I want to put in the list?
Firstly generic stuff. My list needs to be able to deal with:

Alpha Strike - I want to go fast and I want to hit hard. I want reach if possible. I want protection on the approach. If I'm alpha striking my plan is to hit my opponent so hard they don't have enough left to counter successfully. I want a way to clear cheap screening units. I have to also look more closely at how I'm going to keep my caster safe, I don't have quite as many screening options when all my stuff is charging in compared to a gunline.

Example
I've talked about my Madrak2 list before but it's the best alpha strike list I have. It has some shooting to clear screening models, madraks spells to increase damage, madrak's feat lets me run and attack and everything is fast anyway. That's a pure alpha strike list but I didn't want to talk about the same list twice so I'm going to look at Doomshaper1 instead.

1. Doomshaper - feat gives +3 SPD to his beasts. Wild aggression makes them hit very accurately, refuge lets me pull back a key beast so that I protect at least one model from counter attack. Great at throwing out animus, goad allows you to move after attacking a screening model. 
2. Runebearer - lets me protect two models from the counter attack or cycle wild aggression so two models attack extra accurately. 
3. Earthborn + Janissa + Krielstone - Gives me +4 ARM to all my beasts so they make it to the alpha strike alive. Also a damage buff with the elder.
4. Mauler - Damage buff so I kill what I hit, also benefits from the +3 SPD feat. 
5. Mulg - Best beatstick in trolls. With Reach and Wild Aggression and Goad and Rush and Feat can get most anywhere and kill most anything. Gets an extra attack with doomshaper.
6. Axer - rush for more SPD. +3 SPD is good. +5 SPD and pathfinder is fantastic.
7. Fennblades - got to balance the list. All beasts is fine but sometimes you need bodies to get in the way of things or to go do something out of doomshapers control area. Sometimes your opponent has anti beast tech and you need something to go kill it. Fennblades don't synergise at all but give you balance which can be important. Reach also allows them to kill things while still leaving a path the heavies can charge through. They are fast enough to alpha strike as well. 

Trollbloods
Standard Army
PCs: 50 / 50
24 models

[00] Hoarluk Doomshaper, Rage of Dhunia (0 / 6 WB)
[02]  >> Trollkin Runebearer
[12]  >> Mulg the Ancient
[10]  >> Earthborn Dire Troll
[09]  >> Dire Troll Mauler
[06]  >> Troll Axer
[03] Janissa Stonetide
[03] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (3 grunts)
[01]  >> Stone Scribe Elder
[08] Trollkin Fennblades (9 grunts)
[02]  >> Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer

Sometimes I drop the Axer, take some whelps and a chronicler max the stone and take the bellows crew. If I do that sometimes I switch the fennblades for a bomber. I used to play him a lot but I've been giving him a rest lately. Might be time to crack him out again. 

Dice Rollers

Uli has tracked down a games club down in Nowra and we are in the process of organising an inter-club challange. Possibly for the 13th of January. Looks like it's going to be 25 points because they don't have that much stuff. I don't know what else to do about the format. Sounds like they may not want to play two lists and I also suggested highlander format. Uli and I will be heading down there on the 30th to work out the details and play a game or two. Give me a yell if you want to come down too.

Anyway since it seems 25 points is locked in I immediately starting asking myself what were the douchiest 25 point lists I could make:

Legion of Everblight
Standard Army
PCs: 25 / 25
5 models

[00] Thagrosh, Prophet of Everblight (0 / 5 WB)
[11]  >> Carnivean
[09]  >> Scythean
[01] Blighted Nyss Shepherd
[09] Throne of Everblight

I actually like this one. The Carny and Scythean will be ARM 22 against melee attacks, the throne ARM 23 and one of the beasts will come back to full health after you kill it. Warbeasts and Warjacks also take 1d3 damage for every attack they make against me (I have seen a warjack charge and do more damage to itself than the model it was after). The heavies kill heavies and the throne clears infantry really well. Trolls take my feat out of the game and can kill me despite my ARM, the throne doesn't do squat against cryx infantry who absolutely love high ARM low DEF heavies. I feel like this is barely douchey at all, it's hard but not over the top, it requires me to risk my caster, its schtick doesn't work against ranged attacks and the low model count can really hurt. 

Protectorate of Menoth

Standard Army

PCs: 25 / 25

21 models

[00] The Harbinger of Menoth (0 / 5 WJ remaining)

[08]  >> Reckoner

[06]  >> Redeemer

[02] Vassal of Menoth

[02] Vassal of Menoth

[02] Choir of Menoth (3 grunts)

[08] Exemplar Errants (9 grunts)

[02]  >> Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard

That looks meaner. Combining self sacrifice and Martyrdom is mean, really mean when your opponent only has 25 points. Add in awe (living models are -2 to hit if withing 10" of Harby), both jacks will be enlivened (after you damage them once they walk away no free strikes), no shooting against the jacks unless it's magical, errants can't be targetted by enemy spells, harby't feat is that if you advance towards her you take a POW 14 so I can hold you in place for a turn while I shoot you and I have purification so you have no upkeep spells. I can hit hard too as the errants are blessed on their ranged weapons and weapon masters in melee, harby can give them an additional dice on their attack rolls, battle makes both those jacks ridiculous, I can give them an extra attack each and crusaders call gives everything +2 movement. Now I feel like a douche but you still get to do something against this list. I don't feel it makes you hate the game and want to kill yourself

Legion of Everblight

Standard Army

PCs: 25 / 25

9 models

[00] Lylyth, Shadow of Everblight (0 / 5 WB)

[02]  >> Succubus

[10]  >> Ravagore

[10]  >> Ravagore

[05]  >> Naga Nightlurker

[01] Blighted Nyss Shepherd

[01] Blighted Nyss Shepherd

[01] Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew

Cygnar

Standard Army

PCs: 25 / 25

9 models

[00] Major Victoria Haley (0 / 5 WJ remaining)

[02]  >> Squire

[19]  >> Stormwall

[03] Journeyman Warcaster

[01] Stormsmith Stormcaller

[01] Stormsmith Stormcaller

[04] Black 13th Gun Mage Strike Team

I felt dirty writing up the Lylyth list, like I was a bad person just for thinking it. For a new player I would be impressed if they lived to the end of turn 3. Really impressed. Most games would end assassination on turn 1. The Haley list is actually less deadly but you add the feat in to make sure there is no possible way your opponent could have any fun. It is unlikely that your opponent will be able to roll any dice against either of these lists. At 25 points they are stupid broken.

I think I'm going to take the Thagrosh list. It's fully painted and the throne is a great centre-piece. It doesn't assassinate turn 1 or pull anything else that I think is going to annoy people too much but at the same time it's a good list. That it has bad match ups is probably a good thing. 

Anti Colossal Update

And it involves MACBAIN.

The idea is pretty simple (and stolen from the muse on minis forums), countermeasured Boomhowlers. If you are within 5" of the colossal it can't shoot and if it chooses to try to punch to death your boomholwers they're DEF 12 and 4+ tough or DEF 14 and on feat turn they are invincible. Most colossals can't walk away either because they are SPD 5 or slower, you can't trample over them because they have medium bases so you can't get to something you'd rather be punching. I'm not sure it's better than countermeasures on kayazy in most circumstances but you can still take the kayazy and put countermeasures on them when you don't need to jam a colossal. Boomhowlers are also great for using the feat to block out scenario zones. Take Alexia and the risen for when your Boomhowlers die, spread them out so you still can't trample and give them tough with Rhupert Carvolo. Take a Galleon yourself to Fail Safe and god damn it I've built a MacBain list.

Mercenaries

Four Star Syndicate
PCs: 50 / 50
38 models

[00] Drake Macbain (0 / 6 WJ remaining)
[18]  >> Galleon
[05]  >> Vanguard
[02] Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord
[02] Gorman Di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist *
[03] Eiryss, Angel of Retribution
[02] Saxon Orrik *
[09] Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (9 grunts)
[05] Alexia Ciannor & the Risen (9)
[08] Kayazy Assassins (9 grunts)
[02]  >> Kayazy Assassin Underboss

* I built this list taking into account character restrictions with my Bartolo Montador list (Bart - MacBain not a combination you were particularly worried about running into in a tournament before now). Given the choice switch these two models for Dougal Macnaile and Ragman.

OK, new deal to make with myself (replacing the old deal where I agreed to pretend he didn't exist as a Merc caster). I can play MacBain but I must do it in a fake German accent while paraphrasing McBain. You commie nazis won't stop me from delivering these UNICEF pennies!

Cygnar Lists

In preparation for the league and because I have War Room now I've been updating all my Cygnar lists. Here they are in no particular order.

List Building Again

This is another post borne out of a dicussion at the club. The comment put to me was that there is a tendency towards trying to take "premium" models rather than something more along the lines of "I like this model I'll try it out". There is really nothing wrong with building towards models that you like both in a casual and a competitive sense. I was a bit thrown by the comment and it took me a while to pin down why, it's because I don't build lists like that anymore. I don't build a list by asking what are the best models with this caster I instead come up with a way I want the list to work and then pick models to do a job in the list.

I'll try and explain with the help of a list I have refined and am pretty happy with, my Madrak2 list. I'm picking him because I ended up playing him very differently from the way I played him the first time I put him on the table.

Madrak2
My second favourite troll caster. Your caster's abilities are going to be key when deciding what you want your list to do Madrak has a couple of important ones

Blood Fury - Additional damage dice for model/unit. Better on units because they have more attacks for the same spell cost so put out more damage.

Desperate Hour (Feat) - Everyone instantly makes a thresher attack that only targets enemy models. Works with blood fury.

Grim Salvation - If you hurt Madrak you instead remove a warrior model from within 1" of him. Unless it's a Musician or Standard Bearer or Weapon Attachment in which case they can pass it on to someone within 1" of them.

Warpath - Whenever you kill a model in his control a warbeast in his battlegroup can move 3".

When I started with him one of the first things I took was Mulg. Seemed like a high MAT reach beast with the feat was a good idea and Mulg's only drawback is his low SPD which is fixed by warpath. I also had an Earthborn and Janissa so I could being up his ARM and keep him safe, figuring the Earthborn would also get a lot out of warpath. The problem is that is a lot of points (At some stage there was a mauler in here too but I can't remember if I ever had all three together), these are points you can't use on troops. Points that do much less attacking on the feat, points that get less value out of blood fury, points that do not help keep Madrak alive. So the list was altered. I dropped one and then both heavies and started to have a plan for the list rather than a bunch of models I thought would be good.

The plan was a pretty simple one: Surround Madrak with infantry so he is unkillable. Alpha strike (or let your opponent alpha a tarpit unit then counter) and feat with blood fury killing everything.

In order to carry out this plan I need: reach for the feat, speed for the alpha strike, a way to deliver stuff for the alpha strike, I want a hit buff (so I hit on all my weaponmaster, reach, thresher attacks). I also need some beasts but I don't want many, the infantry will do the heavy lifting so the beasts should be able to contribute to the battle from relative safety.

Good units for this plan:

Kriel Warriors (you can take a weapon attachment with reach and they are cheap to stand around Madrak, they can go faster or hit harder and more accurately)
Borrowers (no reach but fast and high pow to abuse blood fury, also very cheap and will always make it alive)
Long Riders (fast and reach and hit hard and high MAT but expensive)
Fennblades (fast and reach)

I can take any three at 50 points. All have their own justifications there are no right or wrong answers. Burrowers are one of my favourite units so they are in, they always make it to the battle too, guaranteed as they can burrow. They also can't benefit from the feat which is good because it means I can cycle blood fury to them after the feat and I don't lose anything. Fennblades are a big unit with reach which is fantastic for the feat and the Kriel Warriors add to numbers to keep Madrak alive and I can put them in front of the more important Fennblades. If I take a Runebearer (Moses) I can upkeep blood fury on the Kriels, charge and kill stuff, runebearer it onto the fenns, charge and kill, feat and kill more stuff, have Madrak cast blood fury onto the burrowers and they can kill anything still standing. I need a fell caller so the Burrowers can hit and I want a second fell caller for the Fenns as they are going to be making a shitload of attacks (I've made more than 30 attack rolls in a single turn with them).

The burrowers don't need any help getting to the enemy but the fenns and kriels do, so add a krielstone to make them pretty much immune to blast damage and immune to fire and corrosion (KS elder). Since I have so much infantry I'll take a chronicler too as he can give them concealment and his best ability, if you kill a model in melee you get knocked down which makes it very hard to get through the unit and means the survivors will kill everything next turn as well.

I need some beasts with ranged abilities and or useful animus as they are going to stay back, I want ranged stuff in particular so I can kill annoying models my opponent has left in front of his army to disrupt the charge. The Impaler means Madrak can shoot 12" with his axe which is good and it has a good ranged attack. The Pyre's animus gives me a damage buff (always love a damage buff) and immunity to fire makes Madrak even more unkillable. That's 47 points, the last 3 points are a Thrullg if it's a tournament list (stays back removing offensive upkeeps until the late game) or Janissa if it's not. Janissa is a lot better than the Thrullg for this list but I tend to run Madrak2, Doomshaper2 and I need Janissa in my Doomshaper2 list.

Trollbloods
Standard Army
PCs: 50 / 50
52 models

[00] Madrak Ironhide, World Ender (0 / 5 WB)
[02]  >> Trollkin Runebearer
[05]  >> Pyre Troll
[05]  >> Troll Impaler
[03] Janissa Stonetide
[03] Fell Caller Hero
[03] Fell Caller Hero
[02] Stone Scribe Chronicler
[04] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (5 grunts)
[01]  >> Stone Scribe Elder
[06] Kriel Warriors (9 grunts)
[02]  >> Kriel Warrior Standard & Piper
[03]  >> Kriel Warrior Caber Thrower (3 Caber Throwers)
[06] Pyg Burrowers (9 grunts)
[08] Trollkin Fennblades (9 grunts)
[02]  >> Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer


A few more things and then I'll shut up. I've seen a lot of Madrak with Champions. Madrak is great with champions, blood fury makes gives them 5 dice on the charge and 4 dice on their second attack. If they hit a heavy it disintegrates but they never hit a heavy. They spend the whole match killing Legionnaires and slowly dying to ravagore shots until I can finish them off with a Scythean.  That said I've also seen Madrak with champions as a second wave unit where the fennblades and burrowers kill anything that can take ARM 20 champions and the champions then just chomp through the rest of the rest of the army while puny infantry just bounce off. The plan is more important than the models. What do they do? why are they in the list?

Lastly you need a plan for how you are going to spend your focus/fury. This can be as simple as camp the lot or Caine shoots stuff. Here I want Blood Fury on 3 things so I need the Runebearer to cycle it. When the runebearer is not using his once per game spell casting ability (stupid Skarlock Thralls) that'll mean Madrak has 3 fury left. He's got plenty to top up the krielstone or snipe and throw his axe. He does not need to camp a lot of fury as his troops keep him alive. You need to remember if you want your caster to cast a lot of animi or if you need to fuel jacks and cast spells that you need a plan for how you are going to spend your focus.

This may make no sense, I'm very tired. I may put up a post about different things I build lists to do at some point.